Once more into the educational fray
A couple of clarifications on my earlier posts on education here and here:
1.) I have been addressing Christians living in America, where homeschooling legal. If it is illegal where you live, you have my prayers in the difficult decision you face.
2.) I was operating under the assumption that we all realize there can be no such thing as a “neutral” education. It has finally dawned upon me that even as Christians we are not all in agreement on that point. Perhaps that would have been a better place to begin the discussion.
Those who think that the American educational system is neutral would do well to spend some time reading John Dewey’s Pedagogic Creed.
A small quote to tickle your brain:
“I believe that education is the fundamental method of social progress and reform. All reforms which rest simply upon the law, or the threatening of certain penalties, or upon changes in mechanical or outward arrangements, are transitory and futile…. But through education society can formulate its own purposes, can organize its own means and resources, and thus shape itself with definiteness and economy in the direction in which it wishes to move…. Education thus conceived marks the most perfect and intimate union of science and art conceivable in human experience.”
3.) I think that the cries of “divisiveness!” are unfair. I am not suggesting that any parent whose child attends public school should be summarily booted from the church roster. I am suggesting that such parents should reconsider their decision in light of light of scriptural requirements for parents. I would hope that Christian sisters and brothers would tell me if they thought I was wrong about something. Let me tell you, they haven’t been shy about it in these homeschooling posts. 
4.) I am a plainspoken person. If my own words and presentation have offended any of my readers, I humbly ask their forgiveness. I do try to be careful about how I say things, but I know that I am weak in this area. I ask you to give me the benefit of the doubt, interpret my words with charity, and forgive me if when I give needless offense.
Having said all that, I do not recant my position: I think it is wrong for Christians in America to have their children in government controlled schools. The alternatives may be very difficult for some (single parents come to mind), but we do not argue principles from the difficult cases. People in difficult situations need help from the church and their Christian brethren, not permission to do what is wrong because the right choice is simply too hard.
The principle is that obedient Christian parents must give Christian children a Christian education. The method is up to the parent, but the American public school system does not fit within the principle.
This is my conviction, based upon what I believe to be a clear reading of the Bible.
And I am convicted to speak to a sister or brother in error. Would you have me ignore my own convictions?
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Filed under: homeschooling, iron sharpening iron, public schools
I am convicted as well, as a sister in Christ, to remind you that it is God and only God who does the judging…you may certainly have your opinion, but your glaring generalizations and categorizations of Christian parents choosing not to homeschool move far beyond opinion.
I certainly don’t need to tell you that it is God alone that can decide who is interpreting His Word correctly and implementing it the ways He sees fit. Until death, none of us will know for sure. All that we can do is live our lives each according to our best knowledge of God and of His commands. For some, this may mean schooling their children publically or privately.
You cannot decide for others that it is wrong to have their children in “government controlled schools”, and you cannot state that people who do so are doing “wrong because the right choice is simply too hard.” We as Christians are not asked or expected to pass judgment on one another.
Much as I do agree with you that homeschooling is the preferred way to educate children in light of our scriptural directives, I do not find your methods of conveying your opinion (and it is only that, an opinion) to be honest, truthful, or upstanding as a Christian.
Kim,
Sadly yes some would much rather have you ignore your own conviction whether centered around homeschooling, raising children, or driving down the road rather than be offered another view. That is the world we live in today, even within the church people aren’t called to hold each other accountable, but rather do what they feel is right. I heard on the radio the other day that pastors are being encouraged to do what they are called to do…PREACH the BIBLE! How sad that we have come to this. People pitty third world countries that don’t know the Lord, or aren’t allowed to speak it, yet here in America that is the road we are heading down in a very fast manor…yet no one pitties our own country.
Thank you for bringing up the point about helping our Christian brethren (abandoned mothers)…a subject near and dear to our family’s heart. If more churches & Christians would help abandoned mothers by doing the “hard things”, there would be a lot less Christian children being raised w/ no father AND in government schools.
BTW, I have found all your arguements to be honest and truthful.
In reference to the first commenter:
“We as Christians are not asked or expected to pass judgment on one another.”
I disagree. Matthew 7:1-6 speaks about judging each other.
1)Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
2)For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
3)Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
4)Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye?
5)You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
6)Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
This passage is not saying to never judge. It’s saying don’t judge without realizing that the the measure you use will be used against you as well. Verse 5 clearly indicates that we should be taking the speck from our brothers’ eyes after removing any logs from our own. This whole passage assumes that judgement does in fact take place and gives us the proper method for the judging.
I just wonder how we know when we have reached the point of throwing our pearls before swine. In this and any other subject.
Very well spoken, Kim! Bravo, as usual!!
Thank you, Kim for being honest about your convictions, truthful in exposing the non-neutrality of Dewey’s educational system and upstanding in your integrity as a Christian to respond to the Lord’s teaching.
I admire you speaking what you know to be the truth. I agree with you about the government schools in our country today. One reason (not the main reason) we have always planned to educate at home is my parents homeschooled me & my siblings. Why on earth would I subject my own precious children to something my parents worked very hard to keep me from?
I really enjoy your blog - keep up the good work. The more controversial something is the more the truth needs to be proclaimed!
I agree that giving the position that a general rule isn’t “true” because of a few exceptions makes for very faulty logic. I’m thinking that there are plenty of people out there doing the “right” thing when they get divorces under extreme circumstances, but it’s not because divorce is the “right” thing to go around doing. Make sense?
I am homeschooling one of my two autistic sons. It is NOT easy. But my eyes have really been opened of late into the (dare I say it?) Satanic goings-on in the public schools. I feel inadequate to homeschool my other children but am praying for this responsibility anyway. It would have to be GOD helping me, and changing dh’s mind about public schools.
I wonder what you think of the internet schools, Kim. I keep wondering why our local school district can NEVER have enough money for new buildings and more teachers. Why are they not plugging at having some kids stay home and do internet schooling at state expense, if there is such explosive growth in the district and bad overcrowding?
Are they afraid of the kids getting a taste of homeschool and not wanting to go back? Or are they just wanting *control* physically over the kids? Because they get just as much money (at least around here) if they send the child to school on the internet. Why do they need more buildings??
Sometimes when I read the news or get a school newsletter I think I am the ONLY person in the whole world who thinks this way. Then I see other people like you guys. We can be “crazy” together LOL!
Oh, that was me posting before.
Mrs. C
:]
The problem comes, not from believing Homeschooling is the best choice for Christian families, but from the opinion that God would not ever call families to not homeschool. If God calls a family in a different direction, and you call them out on their error based on what you believe, you are calling them to stop following God’s will for them and to follow God’s will for YOU. That is sinful.
And contrary to what many homeschoolers believe, it is NOT easier to public school your Christian children, it is MUCH easier to homeschool. I have done both.
More pastors and evangelists out there today were from the public school community than the homeschool community. So there is no basis for thinking they will be less than Christian enough if they are not homeschooled.
My entire point, however, is that you are causing people grief and heart-ache in areas that God does not want them to grieve or feel badly about. You are causing people to stumble in following God. That is sin, my friend.
I am following God. Thankfully I have a strong relationship with God and KNOW that I am doing the right thing, so I am not stumbling or angry or upset over this kind of thing, but there are so many others who are not that strong.
Its great you are so convicted to HS, I am too…
I think the way you deliver a message though can go a lot farther if it does not seem so judgemental…
We homeschoolers give ourselves a bad name when we act holier-than-thou. There are people who think the way we homeschool actually is wrong too if we do not teach only the BIBLE 100%. Adding history can be less “holy”…
There is always someone who will judge others, it is usually the christians doing this unfortunately.
Lets be careful how we deliver the message, is it Christ like? This was the whole point I was trying to make a time ago with the Virginia Tech post and it fits well here also.
The devil would like nothing more to tear christians apart and he usually starts with a good cause to talk about!
I know you I don’t want to be involved in stuff like that… I am assuming by your character that you do not want to either… Its important just to be careful and walk in love…
This is interesting me. I personally understand what is mandated of parents in the Bible on raising children (for example in Deut.). Irrespective of where children learn ABC’s, parents are to be involved with the rising up at daybreak, travelling along the road and at sunset in the lives of their offspring and teaching them in the Lord.
The question about it being easier or harder to homeschool than public school has crossed my mind many a time (yes, I am here again, that lady from Germany).
I think we can agree that there are Christians out there who are really serious about Christ and serious about their children. They are looking for those opportunities to follow God’s Word (like in Deuteronomy).
And there are many out there who profess to be christians but don’t take God’s Word in ernest.
I personally think it would be easier to homeschool. However I do wonder how God’s Word can be seen to mandate homeschooling for Americans (who have in the mean time no great legal hurdles) yet this not being mandated for those living outside of the States (like Germany *smile*). Or am I missing the point? Is God’s Word still saying to me that I am to keep my kids out of public school (let me assure you, German public school is humanistic to the bone and going new-age fast)?
As I mentioned in my second comment on the last posting on education, I am sure that those Christians whose children are in public schools and who take Christ seriously (and the Word of God) are apt to be doing something to ensure that their children can be “salt and light” in the public school. What I mean with that sentance? My husband and I, and likely many of those “salt and light” families, are very busy educating our kids (homeschooling) despite or because they are being public schooled. We have to do it this way. We see that God has bound us to the law of the land.
Still, I believe that there may be other circumstances which would see children in a public school setting, circumstances where parents are trying to honour God’s Word — public schooling their kids AND homeschooling at the same time.
Logically, homeschooling is the best. And it would be easy to surmise that we are to offer our children the best. And from the intensive work with our five children I am convinced that homeschooling would be a blessing for us. Yes, this opinion would be one I would stretch to virtually anyone with children. However: Can we see God’s Word as mandating one nation’s believers to handle their children in one specific manner (in the States to Homeschool) and to handle differently for another nation?
God’s Word is authority. It is truth. It is wisdom. It is above and beyond me. And I want to learn from His Word. It is universal, is it not? He Word is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow, do we agree? It crosses over culture boundaries. I mean, it is God’s, His Word. So it should give me the same guidelines and mandates as it does to everyone reading this blog, right?
Where is my thinking going wrong here?
(Kim, I know that you are writing to Americans in the States so perhaps you scratch this comment… it certainly has me thinking about the “global” meaning of God’s Word!)
Oh, if anyone is interested in what I really think about education and what God tells us, then you are welcome to come to my website: http://schmitz-academy.info
Andrea Schmitz,
that lady in Germany
Andrea,
It sounds like you are well on your way to believing that godless schooling should never be an option for Christian, even in oppressive countries like Germany.
I think you are right that situations and circumstances do not alter the underlying principles of the matter.
So now we just need to settle this: is the education of our children a matter of principle or only method? Is there really a difference of substance between homeschooling, Christian schools, and government schools? Or is it all a difference of degree and location?
Ladies, I think we already covered this topic throughly in the last couple of posts and comment threads on this subject. I humbly submit that further discussion would not be edifying and indeed could be unscriptural.
I suggest we each hold to our own convictions, knowing that what is not of faith is sin, knowing that to his own master a servant stands or falls, and that sowing discord over disputable matters is counterproductive for furthering the Kingdom of God. I further suggest that we would be better served to go to our prayer closets and our Bibles (and our HUSBANDS) for guidance on this matter, rather than risk causing another sister to stumble.
Satan doesn’t care what we argue and wrangle about. He’s more interested in the division than the discussion. The Lord is more interested in our heart to obey and He is more than capable to guide and direct us into His plan for our lives.
I find it rather telling that you object to an educational system that believes in creating a society that “formulates purposes,” “organizes its means and resources, and “shapes itself with definiteness and economy in the direction in which it wishes to move.” Isn’t that what churches (and Christians) do every day?
Dewey wasn’t proposing that we should school children in an attempt to make them heathens and liberals. Rather, he believed that an educated society would benefit all people. We educate the children so that they can provide for themselves, can aid their neighbors, and care for their communities. How is that any different than what Jesus taught?
I have never homeschooled our children. I have never considered homeschooling our children. Not even for one minute. My husband is a pastor. We take our parental responsibility seriously.
As others have stated above, my concern with your posts (and many homeschooling families) is that they believe that THEIR way is the ONLY way and that those of us who don’t choose that for our families are sinning.
We have to prayerfully consider what is best for our own families. You chose homeschooling; I did not. We are blessed in that our children have been able to attend wonderful christian schools, but I don’t believe that everyone who had made a different choice for their children’s education is sinning.
It’s not what you are saying but the spirit (you are better because you have chosen what you perceive to be the “right” way) with which you say it that bothers me.
No, I would never ask you to compromise your convictions. But I would also humbly ask you to not expect me to have those same convictions and accuse me of sin if I do not.
Be Blessed!
Jen
Hi Kim!
I think I’ve only commented a few times in the past (I LOVE your blog). I’ve been reading your education posts, and I must say that I agree with you 100% about the need to homeschool. (I spent my entire childhood in public schools.) You are right to stand up for what you believe in, and you’re right to live out your convictions. However, I feel like you probably don’t understand that homeschooling is not a scriptural mandate–at least many people don’t see it that way. Nowhere in the Bible does it CLEARLY say that we must homeschool, no matter how much we might like it to. Trying to be someone else’s Holy Spirit is difficult and disheartening. I say you just move on…and let the Holy Spirit convict God’s people. If homeschooling were very obvious in Scripture, then OK. But since it’s not, I would advise you to move on and let God deal with it. Otherwise, you might be in danger of causing a brother or sister in Christ to stumble. And that’s not worth it.
“Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumbling-block or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way.” Romans 14:13
This discussion is just what we are discussing right here at home.
I am almost ready to put some of my children in school and my dh is dead set against it. I told him about this post and he agreed with you 100%.
I love homeschooling, but I have to admit that I sometimes feel overwhelmed and I am totally alone in the actual homeschooling. So like others here, I feel that my dh does not understand that I have reasons to send them to school that he can never understand. Its easy for him to feel that we are doing the right thing because he has no idea what I feel.
So, my dh husband is you and I am those that disagree.
One difference…I know that I should homeschool, but I also know that sometimes maybe school will be better for the kids.
I am wrestling with this.
I want to do the right thing, but I don’t always think homeschooling is the right way if I can’t do right by my kids.
So, I guess my question is..does public school ever become a viable choice? Ever?
Sillysiller,
We will be praying for you and your husband.
I know where you are coming from and I have commented (not for this post) before about the fact that I know and want to homeschool but stress about the lack of patience I have to do it. A sweet woman recommended me to titus2.com and they have a great book (which just slipped my head) on being the mom to homeschool. It was $7.00 and I figure I need all the help I can get!
C.S.
Would that be “Homeschooling With A Meek And Quiet Spirit” by Teri Maxwell C.S.? I love that book!!! I just got the opportunity to read it and it was just wonderful :)!
BTW, Kim I totally and completely agree with you :). I haven’t commented until now because hubby doesn’t think I should get too involved in this discussion…I get way too obsessed ;)…So, I totally agree but I’ll keep the rest of my two cents to myself :).
I apparently missed the posts and discusions on the previous posts about educating our children. But I wanted to comment on two things I have read in the comments section here so far. One is that if God calls you to put your children into PS, then you are following His will. I wonder would God ever think that that is the best place for His children to be?
Which leads me to the second; someone wrote that homeschooling is not in the Bible. I would have to wholeheartedly disagree with this statement. Not in regards to “homeschooling” but the children of the Bible times were most definately educated at home. They learned, worshipped, worked, grew up in the shadow of their parents or gaurdian daily.
We are to turn away, be set apart from the evils of this world. Is there evil in PS, absolutely, I went there and was a victum of it.
The bottom line is we all believe in what we believe in. And if you have a spirit that does not compromise your beliefs, you are a rare soul in this day and age.
Secondly, this is Kims blog and she is aloud, and obligated to say what she believs in! If you know that you dont and wont homeschool, then dont read the posts about homeschooling. We all can take from one another those things that uplift us, and leave what doesnt.
Connie, Jordin and Jen,
We are all members of one body, and as such we must be united *in serving God.*
This means that we need to hold one another accountable as well when we believe we see sin or error in our sisters and brothers. They answer to God, not me, but are called to enourage each other in obeying God and helping with the speck in our brother’s eye - if we don’t have a log in our own.
You say that Satan is probably enjoying the division created by discussions like this. How do you think he feels about all the Christian children who are daily being taught that the moral standard of the 10 commandments is silly and old fashioned, that homosexuality is normal, that abortion is a personal choice, that evolution is true and creationism is unscientific, and the oldest lie of all: that man can know good and evil for himself, without God.
Yes, I wonder how Satan feels about that…
I have to disagree Kim my children go to PS and are not taught daily that “the moral standard of the 10 commandments is silly and old fashioned, that homosexuality is normal, that abortion is a personal choice, that evolution is true and creationism is unscientific, and the oldest lie of all: that man can know good and evil for himself, without God.”
For the record, I haven’t addressed the Christian school option at all.
I think this is where the discussion becomes one of method rather than principle.
Principle: Children of Christians must receive a Christian education. Other principles: parents must feed their infants; abortion is sinful; sex outside of marriage is sinful. Chocolate is good for you.
Method: I think it’s best for parents to educate their own children. Other examples of method: I think breastfeeding is best and I think that Japanese cars are better than American. I think that sex inside marriage is a lot of fun. Everyone should eat chocolate.
I don’t think those who disagree w/me are necessarily in sin. You might not eat chocolate and I might think you’re crazy, but that’s ok.
I do think that those who violate true principles are in sin - but not because they do something differently than I do. I have nothing to do with the matter.
*If* the principle is true, and *if* they are violating it, then they are sinning whether or not I point it out.
There are many professing Christians who think that abortion should be a personal choice. I would not let such a comment go unchallenged and charges of division would be preposterous.
Divisions should not be created over methods. *That* is where our liberty lies.
We do not have liberty to violate scriptural principles.
I’m reading what Kim writes and hear people responding to things she is NOT saying.
I read that she says government schools are wrong. I have not heard her say that homeschooling is the only option for Christian parents. In fact, she says “the method is up to the parent”. It doesn’t matter whether she thinks homeschooling is best.
Let’s address the argument. It seems people are talking more about whether it’s okay to assert that homeschooling is best - which isn’t even the point. The question to answer in this discussion is this: Is it okay to send your kids to government schools? What does the Bible say about it?
Second, in trying to decide if government schools are okay, it’s not okay to say “God called me to do this” or “whatever I am convicted of is what He wills so it’s okay”. That is WRONG. God has revealed all that He wants us to know in the Bible. Yes, the Holy Spirit guides us. But He does not call us to something outside of Scripture, and God certainly doesn’t lead us apart from Scripture.
Scripture is profitable for all things. It is how we know Who God is, what He wants, what is right and what is wrong, what His norms are, and what principles we should use to make our decisions. When someone cites Scripture (or a scriptural argument) that doesn’t agree with what you think, let’s not use the Holy Spirit leading us like it’s some kind of trump card .
Amen, Kelly!
ms. mcfearsome,
Part of the point in that Dewey quote was to show just how religious the public school system really is.
There is no neutrality in education. So the question becomes this: what religion is being taught in the schools?
Thank you, Kim, for your thoughts, as well as Kelly. I believe this is good discussion, not divisive discussion. I guess I could bring up birth control, too, because the Bible does not explicitly say, “You shall not use birth control, in any form, for any reason, ever.” However, the Bible is chock full of Scriptures describing the blessing of children, how we can fully trust God in every aspect of our lives, how HE is the One who opens and closes the womb, etc. So, is birth control wrong? We won’t use it. Again, there are plenty of Scriptures to back my “opinion” (if you want to call it just that). ‘Same as homeschooling. No directive, but plenty of backing. NO Scriptural backing for public school, none for BC, etc. The Bible doesn’t say drug usage is wrong, either, but it does speak of taking care of our “temples” and obeying the laws of the land (as long as they don’t contradict God’s Laws), and such.
God’s ways are the best, and He’ll bless accordingly! What does that mean? You figure it out, folks! (That’s my point. Be a Berean, and search the Scriptures daily, to see if “these things” are so.)
I don’t know… if our government and school systems genuinely taught things from a Christian perspective I’m not seeing the problem. They don’t though. And I remember my public school experience to be wayyy different from my childrens’. I was in a very secular family though. You know, Jesus was a nice guy and a good teacher. Now here’s a statue of Buddha and you can rub his tummy for good luck… I love and respect my parents very much, but I disagree with them on this issue.
Now, I’m not backing you 100% on this last post Kim, because they don’t teach that the 10 commandments are silly … no… they don’t back them up either though. And my 6th grader was asked to make an ALTAR TO THE DEAD in Spanish class (no I’m not kidding) so that we can participate and learn about other cultures! They were SURPRISED when the Christians complained.
Oh, I have more to say on this… having kids in both environments… but every time I pop on here the baby has RADAR and starts to cry LOL!
Mrs. C.
Maybe I should have been more clear about the 10 commandments. OK, nobody said to your kid, “Those are silly!”
What I meant was that children are learning that God’s law is irrelevant, unimportant or impractical.
Examples:
Let’s give them sex ed and birth control because really,who expects them to abstain until they’re married? (7th commandment)
God’s name is taken in vain frequently and thoughtlessly. (3rd commandment)
Serial romantic relationships w/no thoughts of marriage are considered normal and healthy. (7th commandment)
A commenter’s example: Making an altar to the dead as a school project. (2nd commandment)
During my years in public school, I was taught exactly how far my parents’ authority extended over me and at what age I could start doing whatever I wanted. The age varied depending upon exactly what I wanted to do. (5th commandment)
I’m sure the examples abound, but the point is that God’s standard is utterly disregarded.
Kim,
I appreciate your comments but I believe you have proven my point. You said in your post “This is my conviction, based upon what I believe to be a clear reading of the Bible. And I am convicted to speak to a sister or brother in error.”
The point is: your interpretation of Scripture is just that–YOUR interpretation. And I cannot be expected to follow what YOU believe God is telling you to do for your family or else be in “sin and error”. Neither can you pronounce judgment on me or anyone else for not “interpreting” scripture the same way. As someone mentioned above, you have studied and determined that you will interpret biblical principles to lead you to homeschool your children. Others have interpreted them differently and chosen accordingly. My problem is when you use the excuse of feeling “convicted” to give you the freedom to “judge” people who may not “interpret” the same scripture the same way.
I have NO problem with homeschooling. It’s just not God’s will for my family. And somehow I don’t think when I stand before God, he is going to say “Kim says you should have homeschooled and you didn’t so you have sinned.”
That’s enough from me!:-)
Humbly,
Jen
On the subject of children in government schools when nothing else is allowed, I do not know about Germany, but I know in Russia (my husband is a Russian immigrant raised in the underground church, with mother, grandparents etc. who suffered there) it was very obvious that the government schools were against God and they in the schools stood up against it. They were made fun of, persecuted and tormented during certain times. The mothers often had to work because it was the law etc. over there. So, many of the immigrants came here and then feel like this is what everyone does, everyone goes to school. They get to school and they are teaching some of the same things they did in Russia, but here the teachers, the others students, are Christians! So it is okay here…… children are taught the American way of being PC. Women work, they takethings from the government because in Russia the government used to pay for alot of stuff and you should take all they can give you.
But, some of the children that came here, have started to see the folly in it. it is not frequent, but some of them are starting to homeschool. They still usually send them to school for first grade as they have a hard time with the sounds, reading etc. but with using very simple books, they are doing it. So, my thought is, if a Russian immigrant who does not have English as their first language can do this and they have seen how it is destroying their young people and christianity, then why do we as American christians not see it?
I don’t see in the bible exactly that it is wrong to have someone else teach your children, but I see the fruits of children that go to public school.
I never experienced getting made fun of because i wear pads instead of tampons.
I did not know swear words when I was in first grade.
I have never had to shake someones hand with s*m*n on it. (a friend who went to high school in a small town had this lovely experience)
I was not made fun of for habits like picking my lips or biting my nails by a teacher (my mom’s experience)
I was not ignored with learning problems because the teacher had too many other students to attend to (my husbands school experience)
i was homeschooled, I was highly socialized, and yes, I had some bad childhood experiences, but nothing near like I hear happens all the time in most schools now.
Dear Kim,
hmmm.
I am not too sure that I would agree to your sentance: It sounds like you are well on your way to believing that godless schooling should never be an option for Christian, even in oppressive countries like Germany.
I would find it hard to dictate that godless anything should (ever or never) be an option for a Christian. Um. We live in a fallen world. There is a lot of God-less stuff to deal with out here. And sometimes there are only choices from one God-less thing to another. It is not up to me to form an opinion about whether something should be an option for Christians or not. It is up to me to find a way to reconsile and align my life and circumstances to God’s Word, to Godliness (uh, is that a word?).
This by no way is to be read: do what you want/feel and bend God’s Word to fit your purpose! Golly, please don’t think I am saying that at all. And we need to discern how literal we take God’s Word. An example we would all (hopefully) find deplorable: Christ offered his body on the Cross, but before hanging on the tree he celebrated the Passahfest with his disciples. This is my body, broken for you, he said. This is my blood, each time you drink it, do so in rememberance of me (paraphrases by me). Was he implying that we are to subscribe to cannibalism?
I agree with you 100%, schooling in the collective sense (Christian, Muslim, Jewish or public) is not neutral. (Ok, even Homeschooling is not neutral, you are correct.) And to me to have a choice between homeschooling and public schooling would be a no-brainer. I might even feel tempted to ask public school supporters if they have lost their marbels… (but please, you public schooler’s parents, don’t be insulted, for my children are in public school too!). (Sometimes we are involved with stuff which cause other Christians to think we are off our rockers… biblically speaking I would say that I think Abraham was off his rocker to even consider offering Isaac to mention one example. Simply put, I was not in his situation so I find it inconcievable to even follow him at this point in the story.)
There were Christians living behind the Iron Curtain worshiping God in “house churches”, or today there are Christians in living conditions which are very much God-less, and God is still with these people. When the Iron Curtain fell, the western Church (at large) was able to witness an emerging strong Christian church in former communist countries. This is because parents took the very same bible verses you and others have mentioned on this blog and educated their kids in the paths of the Lord. Despite the fact that the children were being saturated with Godless schooling and society (and often both parents working out of the home).
I know this story is lopsided, my case and point with the Iron Curtain is dealing with adults who are unable to escape the regime. American Christians actually have a CHOICE, so some may think that this is the mandate to choose one way or another. The point here is that we are called to follow Christ in our personal situation. The underlying teachings apply to all Christians: to be tenderhearted, forgiving one-anonther as the Lord forgives us, to be clothed in compassion, kindness and so on, REGARDLESS of where we are physically (the USA, deepest communist Cuba or Saudi Arabia… or even in good old Germany). This applied to Deuteronomy chapter 6 would mandate that we are to invest in relationships with our children, to raise them up in God’s Word and this also implies quite a bit of time. Yes, time as a homeschooling family can be spent in a completely different manner than as a public school family. But the mandate remains the same for both types of schooling.
Um. The following question comes to my mind with this topic being discussed on your blog: How many of you out there have husbands who are working the land to grow your food by the sweat of his brow? And how many of you are living off a well earned wage from some office or industry job? Didn’t God say to Adam that he would have to deal with all the weeds and nitty-gritty garden stuff to up keep his family? We can take God’s Word here literally, can we not? After all, I can attest to the fact that bearing children is painful and he did say that Eve would have pain during labour at about the same time he told Adam about the weeds…
Do you see where I am heading? I believe it is the underlying principle that Men need to work to support their family and I would not want to be understood to be saying that a bible believing man should quite his day job, grow beans and pluck weeds. I would love to live on a farm and be self sustaining. I would also love to homeschool. We live in a town (no huge acerage at our disposal here), but my husband does plant a nice selection of veggies in our garden and can eat some of our own “toil”! We find ways to serve and love theLord where He has us situated. And right now, that is in Germany, where homeschooling is not allowed as an alternative to public school. So we homeschool after public school (fortunately the kids are only in school until latest 1 pm, giving us time!). We look for and / or create opportunities to raise our children up in the Lord. It is a purposeful action in our lives as we understand that God gave us this responsiblity. Choosing to homeschool is simply a choice. One which you have in the States. For the bible believer, there is as far as I can read it, no choice in finding ways and being active as well as purposeful in raising your children up in the Lord. A public school family will not get around this. Nor a homeschooling family, actually.
This brings me to your questions: is the education of our children a matter of principle or only method? Is there really a difference of substance between homeschooling, Christian schools, and government schools? Or is it all a difference of degree and location?
Of course the education is a matter of both principle and method. You write in your disclaimer you say that principle is where God has his Word in the matter. On this post and on my website I have layed down how I see it. The principle is not that we homeschool, but that we educate our children. For anyone interested in sharing with me how they educate their children, please feel free to join me at http://schmitz-academy.blogspot.com. I would love to hear what methods you use to secure obedience in this principle!
Indeed, Christians everywhere have a choice. To be obedient to God’s Word and if there is a qualifying calling in accordance with God’s Word then to something more specific.
What do I mean by that? Well, some people feel a calling to missions. They raise money and move off to some corner of the world and preach the Word. They are bound by the same Bible we are, to live a life worthy the name of Christ, yet they sense, feel or know that God is calling them to a specific area to preach the Word. That is a specific calling to a certain method of the principle of being prepared to give witness to all who ask you for the hope that you have.
So before I wrap up, I would say that obviously there really a difference of substance between homeschooling, Christian schools, and government schools and I would emphatically hope that Christian parents would be aware of this and be very active in thier children’s education. This realization is not to say that we must or even should homeschool, but that we are to raise our children up in the Lord.
So I have rambled. Sorry.
Andrea Schmitz
I find it interesting that people think “I’ll do what the Lord is calling me to do and you do what the Lord is calling you to do and we’ll just leave each other alone.” As if there is no right or wrong in the scriptures. This attitude usually comes from someone who is offended because you pointed out something they are doing that is not biblical. In other words, they don’t want to be accountable.
Generally speaking, the scriptures may not say ‘home school your children,’ however they do absolutely call us to train up our children and not teach them to be as the world. How you can reconcile these commands with putting your children in public school is beyond me.
Generally if someone offends you can take two different routes:
1). Go to the scriptures, see if they are right, pray about what they have pointed out.
2). React from your emotions. Say that you are offended and use the cop-out of I’m doing what the Lord tells me to do without actually seeking His word in the scripture.
Scripture is clear and true, our hearts are not. Whether you homeschool or public school we must consider one thing: the scriptures only could lead us to one or the other. Will it be a worldly system or a Christ-centered system?
An education that isn’t solely based off of the scriptures is no education for a child. No one can make the argument that the government run public schools are based off of scripture because they are based on worldliness.
Sheila, Kelly and Mrs. S.,
Thanks for your comments on this - each of you has said something I wanted to say, and said it well.
Thanks to everyone for being courteous in a touchy subject, even (or especially) if you disagree. I think that God is glorified when we can come together as sisters and brothers in Christ to search His Word to find His will for our lives.
You know…as I read this and other blog posts of a similar nature and then see the arguments that occur within the ensuing comments, I cannot help but note that all who advocate a public school route seem to couch their decision in religious language, but don’t ever offer actual support from Scripture.
I hear them say things like, “I am CALLED to send my children to the public school.” or “I FEEL this is God’s will for my family.”
May I honestly and sincerely ask for you to enumerate the Scriptural basis for this “calling” and this “feeling?” If you don’t have a basis in the Scripture, then your “calling” and your “feeling” are nothing more than emotions and desires, completely separated from Scripture and thus separated from the will of God.
You will never know the will of God purely through “feelings” or “situations” or “emotions.” God may very well include these things, but He will ultimately back them up in His Word. If it’s not in His Word, then it’s source is nothing more than your own faulty flesh.
So, would those of you who have argued that you were “called” to the public school or that you “feel it was God’s will” for you to educate your children in the public school…would you please post your Scriptural basis for these decisions?
If there is legitimate Scriptural basis for your decisions (not based on exceptions, but on principles, precepts, and normative examples), then this entire issue becomes one of Christian liberty. If there isn’t legitimate Scriptural basis…well…case closed.
Charley
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Charley
How about the great commission of Christ to go into all the world and teach all nations to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you? Is there a verse where there is given an age clarification on this? I believe that public schools are part of all the world! Psalms 139:7 says states that there is no place that we can go where we are out of God’s presence. This means that as Christians if we send our children to public school God is there with them also. Hiow about Matt. 5:16 “Let your light so shine before men that they amy see your good works and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” That verse does not limit the scoope of where and when we are to let are light shine. Could it possibly be that some children are called to let there light shine before there peers in a public school? How about the scripture that says to work out YOUR OWN (not your neighbors) with fear and trembling.
God can lead people in different directions! Personal convictions are just that personal. What may be sin for one may not necessarily be sin for another. Why can we not trust that just because someone does not agree with us that they can not have possibly prayed, sought the Lord, read, etc. as much as we have? Training your children in the Lord is so much more than just the course of education you choose.
When Christ gave the Great Commission, He was speaking to His disciples - the men who had been with Him day in and day out, whose lives had been poured out to serve Him. Though we don’t know their exact ages, these were not children. And they themselves made the decision to follow Christ and “go…” - their parents didn’t send them. If a “child” has reached a point in his life where he has devoted himself to the Lord and His service, then I would guess the person could fit under the category of disciple, and could thus feel like he is called to be a missionary in the public school. However, as parents, WE are still the ones who will be held accountable for our children, as long as they are in our care.
Also, just like training your children in the Lord is so much more than just the course of education you choose, being salt and light in the world is so much more than sending children to public school. There are actually unbelievers all over the place, not just there.
I’ve known far too many “Christian” kids who were influenced for the bad, some even rejecting the faith; those who truly are “salt and light” are the rare exception, not the rule.
But, that’s just me and my experience.
I’ve known far too many “Christian” kids who were influenced for the bad, some even rejecting the faith; those who truly are “salt and light” are the rare exception, not the rule.
That may be your experience but not mine. Our pastor, assisstant pastor and all the ministers at our church were products of public schools. We have 3 ministers in our family that were all products of public school. I have known homeschooled children that have left the church also. This does not mean that people should not homeschool though. I agree that there are many ways that children can be “salt and light” but how is it anyones right to say what God has called our family to. The great commission may have been given to the disciples but I think that we alll agree that it was addressed to the church also or our we not obligated to follow it now because it was only addressed to the disciples. The Bible never gives an age of obligation to follow these scriptures. I believe that we are all God’s witnesses no matter the age. Now I am not saying throw your toddler out to witness but people still see an unspoken witness even in a small child through their behavior, attitude, obedience,etc. My children are very firm in their faith and this is what God has laid on the hearts of their father and I.
However, as parents, WE are still the ones who will be held accountable for our children, as long as they are in our care.
I agree with this statement. We are each responsible for our OWN children. That means that I must follow what God has led me to do for my children. THis mena s that it may be a different calling than God has for you and your children. Why can we not respect the choice sof others just because they don’t agree with us. I gave scriptures that the Lord has shown me to encourage me in my children’s public education. Just because you don’t agree with me doesn’t make it untrue. We still follow Deut 6. We pray in the morning with our children. We talk about God and their day (when we walk) and we have devotions and prayers in the evening(when thou liest down). We can still follow this scripture even when we public school our children. I respect that God has led you to public school and am not saying that is wrong but it is not what God has led me to do and I just ask for the same respect.
Charity
Charity,
Sheila basically covered the argument of the great commission. If that is truly a reason, why are there no normative examples in the Bible of children doing evangelism?
In both of your posts, you did what I explained in my previous comment…you used religious terminology (”I must follow what God has led me to do….” and “Could it possibly be that some children are called to let their light shine….”) without explaining HOW you were “led” or HOW the children were “called”. What Scripture verified your “leading”? What Scripture verified the “calling” of the children? As I said earlier, any “feelings” MUST be verified with Scripture, and that includes the verses that would argue AGAINST your direction. You must be able to explain how they affect your choice. (For an example outside the education arena: In the Amenian/Calvinist debate that has raged for centuries, each side has Scripture they use to defend their positions. However, for their argument to hold any weight, they must be able to explain how the other side’s Scriptures fit as well, since they ARE in the Bible and cannot be ignored.)
So, for example, a homeschooler can easily show how he and his family are carrying out the Great Commission. Yet the public schooler must show how the father is raising his children in the fear and admonition of the Lord by sending them to an officially pagan, godless environment to sit under the authority of a scoffer (Psalm 1) 40-hours a week.
This is what I was asking in the previous comment. No one defending the public schooling of their children ever steps up to this task. What are the particulars of Biblical admonition that direct you in your choice? How do you deal with the verses like Psalm 1, the entire book of Proverbs, and Ephesians 6:4, not to mention all the others that would speak against sending your children into a public school environment?
This is NOT a personal attack…it is a serious, challenging questioning of why you do what you do. “Respecting the choices of others” in no way keeps one from challenging/questioning those choices. The entire idea that there is truth for you and truth for me is post-modern at its core. There IS an objective truth to be had here, and we should be seeking to find it. One of the ways is by challenging each other to argue from Scripture alone for one’s position.
Charley
What scripture tells your husband what company to work for? What scripture tells you what curriculum to buy? What scripture tells you what house to buy? What scripture tells you which church you should go to? Which scripture tells you what Christian college to go to? Which scripture tells you what grocery store to go to? Which scripture tells you what blog software to use? Which scripture tells you what man to marry?
There are things that give you guidelines, like marrying someone equally yoked, but not exactly who, when, where, how, why. Sometimes, many times, God directs your path and you know it is His wil.
Otherwise you’d be stuck trying to figure out which kind of food to fix for breakfast. There is no scripture that says “oatmeal on Monday and Eggs on Tuesday.”
God does NOT say to homeschool, just to raise our children in the fear and admonition of the Lord. If public schoolers have to “prove” the father is doing that, so do homeschoolers. Just because you are homeschooling, we can’t assume that your husband actually IS doing is God-given duty. I don’t have to prove it. You don’t have to prove it.
We are ONLY accountable to God, and you are only accountable to God. You cannot give me any scripture that says anything about acedemics being taught by the parents.
We are training our children in righteousness. Our children are serving God, and are faithful to Him. We are most certainly doing the right thing for our children, regardless of what school our kids are in. Our children love to do mission trips, serve the homeless, serve the elderly and widowed in our community, serve the church, all joyfully. They live a life in the world, but not of it. They are in the world, but do not conform. They are an example to others. I trust that IF they fell away, that we trained them right and they will come back to God as He promises.
The thing is, I do not have to give you scripture to back up what I am doing because I am not in sin and I am not accountable to you.
I have had comments made to me about this discussion that if they were not already believers, they would run the other direction from this kind of person. Baby Christians are having stones cast at them, guilt heaped on them because they are not equipped by God to homeschool, so something must be wrong with them, when, in fact God does not need to equip them for what He has not called them to do. God equips the called, if He hasn’t equipped you, He hasn’t called you.
Too many assumptions are made that public schoolers have not prayed about it. I prayed long and hard. It was very difficult to let my kids out into the world. Because it was years ago, I don’t remember what exactly God used to show me it was the right decision. But I was very at peace with it, and so was my husband, after prayer and fasting and seeking God. For you to demand that I show you scripture and explain to you why I am following God down a different path than you is rather haughty, isn’t it? How can you assume that because you prayed and God showed you the path of homeschooling, that anyone who does not choose it did not pray and was not led by God and did not get scriptural direction?
I used to have those very feelings, strong, strong feelings that all Christians should do all the things that I knew God had me do based on scripture. God knocked me off my pedastal, and I no longer judge things that are not sins. There are enough things in this world to help each other on that are sinful, that we don’t need to tear into each other over something that is not scripturally commanded. I DO the things that are commanded, my children know the Lord, know right from wrong, serve, love, and seek God.
” If it’s not in His Word, then it’s source is nothing more than your own faulty flesh.” Where in scripture does it say that if a Christian does not agree with you, and does not bow down to your demand for proof of following God, that they have the faulty flesh? Doesn’t the entire attitude that you are right because of scripture that does not even specifically state what you are applying it to come under faulty flesh?
That is the only reason I am in this discussion. I don’t care if you don’t like me using the public school, because I don’t follow you. I care that others are being hurt by words of condemnation rather than letting your words be apples of gold in settings of silver. You are not “encouraging them to pray and seek God’s Word in the matter.” but telling us that if we don’t agree that training our children in righteousness means to not use the public school that WE are the ones who are sinning and are following our flesh rather than God.
I have so completely been there. Thinking I knew what God wanted and what He meant. I have learned the hard way not to demean others for their choices short of actual scriptural reasons. Like adultery, which is a clear scriptural command. And even then, I don’t judge, I support and pray.
These words are not edifying others, they are tearing down and harming believers over something that is not clear. It is clear to train your children in righteousness and teach them the Word of God. Its clear, and if I am doing that, then you have no basis to say that I should not be doing what I am doing. You (not one person here, a general other side of the debate) are manipulating scripture to fit your desire and trying to force others to conform.
I must clarify. My husband is a pastor. But, by no means, was he “salt and light” in school. He was not yet saved, and lived the life of a hellion. In fact, I know very few pastors personally who were homeschooled! That doesn’t mean they were necessarily following Christ during their formative years (some were, some weren’t) but that God did at some point in their lives get a hold of them. I myself was raised in a strong Christian home, but I was easily swayed by the “lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and the pride of life.” I was not in any way “salty”. So, depending on your theology (which is a whole other HUGE debate), I turned away from God in my schooling years, but have since recommitted my life to Him!! Some will be easily swayed, some will stand firm. BUT! I have seen the fruits of both environments, and I’ll stick with my and my husband’s convictions, because they are just that! I have really been appreciating this good discussion. I don’t think stuff like this has to be divisive at all. If nothing else, it can either strengthen our individual resolve or maybe cause us to re-evaluate why we do what we do!!
I would love to hear from just one person who was actually convinced to take their children out of the state indoctrination centers, by hearing the argument of a “home-schooler”*. Does anyone here fit that decription?
Read the scathing expose of spiritual, intellectual, and emotional RAPE perpetrated by the government schools in Dr. Bruce Shortt’s book “The Harsh Truth About Public Schools”.
If you have your kids in state centers, be totally honest with yourself: admit that it’s the money. It’s the time commitment (meaning you have to give up that second income that adds so many nice things to life). It’s a plethora of things…but it’s NOT that you feel you are “called” by God, for God’s sake, to enroll your kids in those cesspools!
Please, let’s honor one another with just a modicum of sense; of honesty. These things are hard, and no doubt. But please…you feel “called” to send your children to condom education, Darwin-as-fact, and full-body metal detector scans?
David M. Zuniga
(I don’t know how that happened, but I am NOT the “moderator”!)
*”Home schooling” is oxymoronic; viz:
“Home” is God’s venue for life, for the young and the old (i.e., learning never ends in the family, “at home”, or in the shop, or field, or marketplace). In the Christian framework, “home” is where children are trained to serve the purposes of God, and to glorify Him in all they do.
“School” is an Egypto-Greco-Roman category; the collective where clerks, priests, bureaucrats, and future citizens were forged for purposes of the Pharaoh or the State.
So even though it is a terribly handy (short) moniker for what we do, I really think it is silly (and counterproductive) to use the term “home schooling” and I wish more folk would disabuse themselves of it, handy or not.
“So what do I call it then, when I teach my kids rather than have the State or some other collective institution teach them?” Ummm…call it “life in Christ”. Isn’t that what it is?
Or do you say, “Oh, don’t bother Grandfather right now; he’s doing his homeschooling in his study!”
Home, shop, field, marketplace… whatever. Just not in a peer-segregated “school”, for God’s sake! I defy you to find the place where the training begins, if not the cradle. Or where it ends, if not the grave.
Qtpies,
?God does NOT say to homeschool, just to raise our children in the fear and admonition of the Lord.?
Exactly, and yet when we send our kids to public schools, they are being educated in the exact opposite way. Children in public school are taught all manner of things that deny God. Doesn?t it seem a touch counterproductive to send kids somewhere for upwards of 40 hours a week where their education is focused on everything EXCEPT God?
I was raised in public schools. My wife was raised in public schools. My older children attended public schools up until recently. Public schools are not value neutral. Does that mean you cannot be a Christian and send your kids to public schools? Does it mean that kids educated at home will invariably turn into good Christians, and kids in public school will inevitably become godless heathens and drug dealers? No and no. But?
Which is the more Biblically defensible position: sending kids to a secular school that more often than not is hostile to Biblical teaching and then deprogramming them the rest of the week when they are home? Or educating them at home, saturating every aspect of their education with a Biblical worldview, teaching them to fear the Lord in every aspect of their education, rather than creating a false dichotomy between education and faith?
Hmmm Qtpies7?touched a nerve? That’s quite an emotional rant?.
Your questions about Scripture unfortunately illustrate exactly what I’m talking about. For example, “What scripture tells your husband what company to work for?” shows that you don’t understand the idea of taking principles from Scripture and applying them to your life. Of course scripture isn’t going to tell you what company to work for. But it will inform you about what career to pursue. For instance, if you “felt called” to be a medical doctor, but found that the training required you to perform an abortion, you would be unable to pursue that career because of God’s principle of the sacredness of human life. That you “felt called” would have absolutely nothing to do with it.
I’m not going to deal with your other examples, but they can either be answered the same way?apply the principles of the Bible to the particulars of life?or they border on the absurd (like what particular food to serve on a particular day).
You are correct that there is no “thou shalt homeschool” verse in the Bible. You are incorrect when you say “?just to raise our children in the fear and admonition of the Lord.” The key is the word “just.” There are far more verses on childrearing in the Bible than that one, and they form principles and precepts that should guide how you go about it. It appears that bringing out these verses and suggesting that those who subject their children to the godless environment of the public school should consider them and ask themselves how they would answer them really torqued you off. No, you are not accountable to me. I didn’t even write the particular comment specifically to you. But you took it that way. Why? Did it hit too close to home? Do you really not want to answer those questions to yourself and to God. You don’t have to answer them to me, although my challenge still stands?for any person committed to the public school system to justify it with Scripture, while taking into account all the verses and principles that would say otherwise.
That there are immature Christians reading these discussions does in no way invalidates asking hard questions and challenging others to support their positions. I would hope that a “baby believer” would discover that it is important to learn to search the Scriptures for the principles God would have us follow. If they are unable to do so, then I would hope they would find someone to mentor them. And when they find the principles, I would hope they would learn to trust God to make it possible for them to live a life in conformity to those principles. And I would hope that they would find a church that would support them in those commitments, to include making it possible to homeschool should they desire. I am aware of churches out there that do that very thing?.
< " If it's not in His Word, then it's source is nothing more than your own faulty flesh." Where in scripture does it say that if a Christian does not agree with you, and does not bow down to your demand for proof of following God, that they have the faulty flesh?> Sorry, but you made a massive assumption that isn’t in what I wrote. It has nothing to do with any Christian agreeing with you, but with you searching the Scriptures in order to find out how to live. If you are doing something for which the Scripture says to do otherwise, either in principle, precept, or actual command, then to rationalize the continuing of that behavior is faulty flesh. I am not “demanding proof of following God”?but ASKING those who use the “feel led” type of response to enlighten the rest of us as to how Scripture fits in with their decision. If it doesn’t, then others should be wary of that person’s publicly pronounced positions on any subject, not just on education.
And whether I “like you using the public schools” is not even a factor here. I am addressing an issue that is extremely faulty in American Christianity?that of feelings over Scripture. You can pray, fast, and “have a peace about it.” You can “feel led.” You can “feel called.” Absolutely NONE of this matters if you don’t diligently search the Scripture for what God says about it. Scripture ALWAYS trumps feelings.
And in no way is anyone “forcing others to conform.” How possibly could that be? Good grief, this is a blog! You are here reading it of your own volition. If you don’t want to read it, don’t! If you don’t like what is said either in the blog itself or in the comments, move on. But I dare say that becoming this emotional in a rant about my asking for ANY public schooler to show how they justify their decision based upon the actual Word of God rather than upon “feelings” says that you really don’t want to address the question. You personally really don’t have a Scriptural basis for what you do and you really don’t like to think about it.
It’s absolutely NOT about answering me or being accountable to me. It’s between you and God. And God cares about what’s in His Word; that’s why He gave it to us. I doubt God’s really interested in you “having a peace about it”?unless that peace is rooted deeply in what He has revealed in his Word.
So, Qtpies7, you don’t have to answer this comment, but my challenge still stands to the rest of those reading: Will someone who is committed to the godless public schools please justify their decision with Scripture, to include dealing with the verses and principles that would go against that decision? Note clearly…this isn’t a “demand,” but rather a reasonable request from one Christian to another as we deal with a contentious issue.
Charley
There are many things which I understand about old testament jewish culture and perhaps more which I assume — both positions (understanding and assumption) hold with them the hightened possiblity that I am wrong. So here we go with a lengthy comment about principles with the request to educate me when I am getting the facts wrong. I am not a great biblical scholar. I just read the book and some stuff sticks, some doesn’t.
To begin with, there is the assumption that Jewish families educated their children, the sons learning the trade from their fathers. And that these teachings were in accordance with the Thorah, or God’s Word. To be specific, the fathers were diligent to raise thier children up in admonition of the Lord. On one hand, I can accept this, for something along this line must have been happening, otherwise I find it hard to believe that the Church would be standing today. God had to be able to count on the fathers to do their job (in raising their children in the ways of the Lord).
On the other hand, I do recall quite a few times when the Jews strayed from God and his precipts. This seems to happen quite a lot. I wonder how faithful the father’s were in raising their children then? Like Gideon. Was his father not straying from the Lord? There were also numberous times when the Isrealites were living as slaves or taken captive. Did the men have enough opportunity to raise the children up in the sense we are discussing here (during the day, all day)? I am thinking about the times of Moses, fortunately his mother was able to nurse him, but as a rule, would it be prudent to assume that the fathers were out working for the Pharao for considerable amounts of time during the week. (What were the women doing during this time? This is one of the many things I do not know.) Would it be fair to say that part of the time, the Jews were having a hard time living the ideal Godly life because they chose not to (they turned from God) and another chunk of time, historically, they were in exhile or under siege (thus also living under adverse conditions–and yes, this may have been a result of their choosing to live in sin).
With that in mind, let us move to some various people of the Old Testament.
The young ones who were obedient to God:
How old was Samuel when the Lord called to him in the night with the message for Eli, the priest? (1Sam. 1-3)–Eli was not known for the fact that he raised his own children to obey the Lord, why would a mother give her child up to him? Ok, she made a vow to God that she would give her child to the Lord, so perhaps the question is why would God give her Eli as a surrogate family?
Because so many of the priests–like Eli’s sons–had become selfish and had begun to stel from the people, Samuel started four schools for the prophets. For over 300 years, men would be trained to hear God’s voice and tell the peole and the kings what God said. Later, more famous prophets were Nathan, who was an advisor to King David, and Elijah and Elisha.
Speaking of King David, how old was he when he boldly decided to trust in God while challenging Goliath?
What about Solomon, was he not that youngun who ended up King? (There was a really young one, who was it?)
2 Kings 5, the story of Naaman, a girl (how old may she have been), who was taken captive (and hence removed from her family), spoke up concerning the healing powers of God.
Wasn’t Joseph the youngest son of Jacob? How old was he when he was sold to slavery by his brothers?
What about Esther? How old was she? Again, it is probably due to my lack of understanding of jewish culture, but she was apparently not known to be Jewish or Haman would have known to bee out for her neck as well as for Mordechai’s and the rest of the Jews.
Granted, none of these can be used as explicit examples to homeschool or public school. However, they are great examples of young people standing up for their faith. And their strength in faith is to be credited to someone who took the time to teach them in the ways of the Lord. Some of these children were in exhile, so we must assume that the parents excercised prudence in teaching the Word of God while the children were young and that this sustained the children in exhile. (Also to be added the 4 guys in Daniel…)
So, the principle is to teach them when they are young (there is nothing in the above stories to indicate a time to stop teaching them–unless they were taken captive, which naturally ends the teaching).
But I would not say that all these children were submersed in pure jewish culture, living in an ideal God-fearing community of believers…(so these examples may not actually emulate “homeschooling” over any other schooling). Although the jewish people at large were often choosing to live in sin, we are allowed to see that there were often a few who did try to remain with God. Let me state the 40 years in the dessert as an example. Although Joshua and Caleb came back from scouting, stating that the land looks great and that God is surely with them, the people at large decided to follow the other 10 who were worried about the adversaries… (a classic case of lack of faith?).
Jesus pointed out that prophets were often mistreated (because the others felt uncomfortable?).
Jeremiah, for example, was thrown in a well–and people came by and laughed at him. Other prophets were stoned, thrown to the lions, and killed with swords. Prophets were not very popular, but they continued to preach God’s word.
There are also many stories which I read about God speaking to individuals in a manner which I have not experienced (and to be honest, I might question you if you professed to some of these funky experiences). God spoke to Bileam through his donkey (Numbers 22-24). He spoke to Abraham through a burning bush.
And on another note, God allowed even wierder things to happen between parents and kids (or allowed parents to do stuff with their kids) which I would also consider to be questionable:
What about Lot, did he not offer to give his daughters to prostitution? Yet dispite this character flaw, God saved him and his daughters (too bad for his wife, though, you can be too salty, I suppose *smile*).
Jephthah was one of the judges of Israel (Judges 11). He made a rash vow, one he soon regretted. If God would give him victory, he promised to sacrifice whatever came out of his house to meet him when he returned from battel. He did win. but he was heartbroken when his only daughter came out to meet him, dancing to the sound of tambourines. And Jephthah kept his promise and sacrificed his daughter.
So is this to say that we should be allowed to offer our daughter’s to prostitution? Or that God would allow us to sacrifice our children? I would not make a rule out of any of these things, I simply note that it happened, for you can read it in the Bible.
What can I say? I read the Deut. etc. texts in this context and see that it is imperative for parents to raise their children up in the Lord. I do not see scripture to be mandating “homeschooling”.
Granted, your route will be very different if you can go around all that extra non-Godly stuff. We have a lot of de-programming to do with our public schooled children. (They have to do transcendental meditation exercises in language arts class or buddhist meditational excersises in math… warped! We are not public schooling because we want to, yet we do wonder if our children would have learned about the differences between far eastern meditation techniques and Christianity if they were homeschooled?)
Everything is permissable, not everything is profitable. This is a lesson we learn regularily when dealing with public school. I trust that you homeschoolers are also learning these lessons, probably in a different way.
Oh, there are many other examples I would love to mention: like Isaak and Rebecca–how a mother can (mis)use her position to “help” God along the way. Esau and Jakob were “homeschooled”, were they not? Let us look one generation further: how well did Jakob train up his sons? Joseph was prideful and boastful, the others were envious. They sold Joseph to slavery? Were they not all “homeschooled”? To be absolutely certain: I think ALL parents need to be prudent in raising their children, for this sinful nature is in all of us regardless of where schooling takes place. We all need to hear and understand, study and love God’s Word. And we need to LIVE it out.
And one more thought:
After the Babylonian exhile, when the Jews returned to their land and rebuilt the temple, they began building places where everyone could meet for prayer and instruction. These buildings were called synagoges.
Boys started school at the synagoge when they were five and continued until they were 13. They were taught to read. By the time they finished school, they knew most of the Old Testament by heart. There were also classes at the synagogue for adults. Girls did not go to school, but they stayed at home and learned to be wives and mothers. Some women, like the judge Deborah, did know a great deal about Israel’s history and law.
Is this what you homeschoolers mean by homeschooling? (I don’t mean to be snide, actually I would love to live on a piece of land, harvest my own food, tend to some sheep and homeschool… along this path of Christianity, I have met so many people who range from un-schooling to internats that I find it interesting to hear how the Lord is leading families to teach their children…)
In conclusion: There is no promise for a perfect environment to raise our children in. The Bible shows us that. There is worldliness and Godlessness all around us, sometimes right within us, sometimes frightfully close to our families, sometimes in the midst of them. It is a learning to deal with the old Adam and the new Adam which we are called to do, not to reconcile the one to the other, but to leave the old Adam behind and embrace, live the new Adam. The Jews, those who truely searched for God daily, had to do this whether they were under siege, taken captive or living peaceful lives. And this is how I tend to understand the homeschooling issue.
Andrea
Andrea,
In a quick, cursory reading of your comment, I note it is written with a kind and gentle spirit…one we should all (myself included) learn to emulate. Thank you. This is the sort of spirit in which a discussion of this sort can take place.
I will read it more closely and comment at a later date…graduating a homeschooler in the very near future and things are getting nuts around our home!
Charley
Dear Charley,
thank you for your kind words. May the grace of God encompase you with your graduation plans! How exciting! I look forward to hearing from you when you have the time,
Andrea
I am a christian and was in public schools my whole life. I thought it was generally very neutral. In sex education, abstinence was stressed again and again. But they did educate us on the other options. They give us the facts, and we get to decide. But it comes to the parents and what we are taught at home. Just because a teacher shows me a birth control pill doesn’t mean I’ll go out and get one. The teachers always stressed abstinence.