Being Quiverfull
My friend MamaArcher started a QuiverFull Blogroll recently and would like members to post about their own Quiverfull Journey. My husband is going to post about the journey itself; I would like to ramble a bit about being here.
Let me start by saying that I understand that God gives some families fewer children. I am not talking about those who couldn’t have more children, but those who chose not to - for any reason.
Unlike many other large families, we have never received an overtly hostile comment, though many onlookers seem unsure what to think or say. We receive many of the same comments over and over. Some are simple observations:
- Better you than me.
- You sure have your hands full!
Fair enough. You never wanted a houseful of children. I won’t try to convince you that you’re wrong. My hands are full, though I firmly believe that even a single child will keep a mother’s hands full. 8 children really are not 8 times as much work. Children require our full attention whether we have 1 or a dozen.
Some comments are unqualified compliments:
- They’re beautiful!
- They’re so well behaved!
- Are you Christians? I could just tell…
But many comments sound more like excuses:
- I don’t know how you do it. My two kids keep me busy/drive me crazy.
- I would love a large family, but I just can’t afford more children.
- I’m just not patient enough.
- I would have had more, but pregnancy was too hard on me. I just wasn’t made for it. (***Or my doctor advised me not to have any more.)
This may sound harsh, but I think all of these really are just excuses. I think that many people, for many reasons, just honestly don’t want large families and when they see a large family they instinctively feel a bit defensive. We obviously disagree with their choice in family size. Knowing or assuming this, they will seek and find the excuse they need to justify their decision.
But an excuse is not a legitimate reason. “I can’t, because…” doesn’t sound any better coming from an adult than from the child who doesn’t want to do what he’s told. If you see a large family and immediately feel the need to defend your choice not to have a large family, maybe you need to reconsider. Do you think we couldn’t use the same excuses?
If we believe that children are a blessing from God and that large families should be the norm, we need to act upon that belief regardless of whether we really think we’re ready for the job. No excuses. Who among us is really ready and fully equipped to raise even one child? Can any of us really expect to succeed in this monumental task by our own strength and virtue?
Can you guarantee that you are patient enough to raise even one child? Do you think I was equipped to be the mother of this crowd when I was a newlywed? Do you think I’m the perfect model of saintly patience now?
Do you really have the financial stability to commit to providing for a child for 18 or more years? How do you know where your job or bank account will stand at this time next year? Are you sure you’ll even be alive next week?
Do you think pregnancy is always fun or easy for moms of many? Our hips and backs hurt too. Labor hurts, every time. We have gestational diabetes, ligament pain, fatigue, anemia, c-sections, morning sickness, children with handicaps, stillbirths and miscarriages. We do this joyfully because it is our service to the Lord, not because it sounds like fun.
Why do we do this? It certainly sounds foolish to some people. They see a large family crowded into a small home, driving an old van, counting their spare change to decide if they really ought to order off the dollar menu or just buy a bunch of bananas, all for want of a few dollars’ worth of birth control.
This is foolishness to some. Some would say it’s also foolish to pay tithes when you can’t pay your bills, or to thank God for the food you raised by the sweat of your own brow, or to abstain from premarital sex. We think Scripture teaches differently, and we are not ashamed to appear foolish in the eyes of the world.
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.
***If your doctor advised you not to have more children, I understand that yours was a hard decision - but it was a decision nonetheless. You had a choice and you made it. Not everyone obeys their doctor’s advice; not every doctor offers the same advice, and not everyone who goes against the advice of a doctor winds up regretting it. I’m not saying that you should have decided differently. Only that you did, indeed, have and make a choice.
see the follow-up post here: Quiverfull Clarifications
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Filed under: Christian living, big family
Dear Kim,
thank you for this post! I will be looking forward to PC’s posting, too!
I just wanted to quickly share that all 5 of our children were against Doctor’s “orders”… all 5 put me immediately in a “high risk pregnancy” and the third of the 5 (who is a lively 7 year old boy) was supposed to be aborted–if I had followed the Doctors.
Sometimes we face difficult decisions. Yet it is my experience: Each time I trust in the Lord and choose to follow my biblical understanding, then for me the decsions have become “clear as day” and not a burden at all. (Oh, yes, the pregnancies itself were burdonsom, but the “brain activitiy”–the thinking and making decisions–was not burdomson –there is a spelling mistake there, right? sorry
)
Thanks Kim for your post. I was invited to join this blogroll too but have yet to post on it. Trying to figure out how to say what I have to say. I enjoy reading your answers to things that I know all to well. You
Kim,
Your post made my eyes well up with tears as I read it. Not because of guilt, but because I agree whole heartedly with you.
Children ARE a blessing! I have 5 children and am 38 and my prayer is always that if He wills, God would choose to bless us again. I wasn’t always quiverfull minded and today I am so sorry for that because I know my fertile days are getting fewer and further between.
Some folks think that there is a mindset that the more children you have the more Godly you “think” you are. I would have to say the complete opposite. The more children I have the more I realize how much I need God. Every new child seems to drive me to my knees and to His Word more and more. It is only by His grace that any of us can carry and care for these children.
Excellent post my fellow Texas friend!
i would don’t judge you for having 8 children so i would hope you wouldn’t judge me for having just 2. my doctor told me not to have nay more and my husband and i decided not to take the risk, for each of us it is a choice and we need to all respect that of one another. what’s right for one may not be right fr all of us.
Thank you for a very nice blog today! I too, have often noticed people are quick to offer up an excuse when they really don’t know what to say.
Dear Kim,
I read your blog most days, and although we are *worlds apart* in our world views and philosophies, I learn from your wisdom, thoughtfulness and insight every single time I do. I couldn’t comment on your previous blog as anonymous comments weren’t permitted, but I’m glad you’re back up and running here so that I can thank you for this thought-provoking post and for the inspiration you provide!
Wishing you all the best,
Hilary.
Kim,
Thank you so much for posting! I am looking forward to reading your hubby’s post also!
It is amazing the things that people say. But when you know that the blessings come from the Lord and are seeking to live in obedience to Him, the favor of man dwindles away and their comments along with them. We can only pray and hope to be a testimony of God’s goodness in our life, and I know that you and your family are that good testimony!
Your friend,
Kristine
What a wonderful post! I can relate to so much of it. I really don’t feel capable of raising one child! Having one son has shaped me in ways I never dreamed. My second has continued to stretch and grow me - these children are such capable tools in the hands of God when it comes to shaping me and striping away some of the many bits of “self” I cling to so tightly!
I don’t think anyone would have advised us from a fiancial standpoint, to have our eldest son. Our second was concieved 2 weeks after a miscarriage - who would recommend that?? I didn’t feel mentally ready, and was grudgingly faithful.
God was NOT “grudgingly” faithful, but so much more than I ever dreamed, merciful and providing and strong.
This second son of mine, I feel like I have “been through the fire” to hold him in my arms. He was 4lbs, 4 oz when he was born and spent 12 agonizing (almost pointless) days in the NICU.
Is all of this *because* he was concieved in such bad timing? A hundred times, no! I believe that this son was given me because of my feeble faith. God has shown me that I can trust Him through everything….
He is so mighty and powerful. I love serving our merciful God!
Absolutely wonderful post - I have a question, too. (For any of you, actually!) I was wondering about the Quiverfull mindset when it comes to adoption. Are the expectations the same? Do people who are part of the Q movement support adoption? Are there “blended” Quiverfull families with some biological, some adopted children? What about Christians that cannot have biological children?
Thanks for any and all answers!
Beautiful post; it was a blessing to read it!
Beautiful post, thank you for sharing!!!! You’re so right that being “quiverfull” is a service to God.
Thanks for writing on this topic! I grew up in a Quiverfull family. I have 9 brothers and 3 sisters here on earth, 1 sister in Heaven who died from a fatal birth defect, and 4 siblings who were miscarried that I am looking forward to meeting someday. My parents are 48 and 49 and would joyfully welcome another baby if God should bless them again. Our age range is 24 to 3 years old.
I am not married and this is one of my non-negotiable standards for a spouse. If you are committed to trusting the Lord, why would you want to limit Him in this area of your life? Is He not faithful? Is He not able? When I pray for my future husband, I pray that God is working to nurture this conviction in his heart as well. I consider it one of the biggest blessings in my life to have grown up in my family, and I hope in His perfect time to be a wife and mother trusting Him to send what He knows is best for me!
kim–
All I am going to say is
“Amen” !!
Kaity, I would say yes, there are.
I *think* that the Bettendorf family is quiverfull but am not 100% sure? They have a beautiful “blended family” and I enjoy visiting their blog as well.
http://www.teambettendorf.com/
I would not be suprised if we didn’t adopt one day. I would not stop having children myself, but I would feel so blessed to be able to have even more! Children are so precious!
Erin, I was told that there were many areas I was going to have to compromise in when I was looking for a husband. I assumed this was one area I just needed to be “more reasonable”. Did God ever amaze me with how He matched me up with my husband! Don’t ever compromise your convictions - I nearly did and it’s not worth it!
I appreciate the spirit with which you wrote your post. We have chosen to limit our family and feel very blessed with the four beautiful children God has given us. They ARE blessings and we love them dearly. While I have no doubt that more children would certainly bless us in the same way, we feel that our family is complete. And we have no guilt or misgivings about that. For us, 4 meant our quiver WAS full.
I appreciate that you acknowledge that we disagree but don’t do it in an accusing way. You are careful to state your beliefs but not sound judgmental and critical. You have a lovely family. Keep up the good work!
I have always had a quivverfull heart, but I’m not considered so by the quivverfull croud because we have only been blessed with one living child. It’s hurtful when quivverfull families look down on us because they can’t see past the fact we only have one child. I’ve even had some quivverfulI families refuse to associate with us because we don’t have a large family like they do. I’ve wanted to consider adoption, but hubby doesn’t at this time so I leave that in the Lord’s hands also. Even at 40 I’m still hoping and praying the Lord will bless us again at least once more…but I have always been open to as many children as the Lord would bless us with…even if it is only one.
Wow, I really needed to hear that today!
I am sitting here with the feeling of nausea that has been welling up inside of me for a week knowing full well even though the second line was faint I know what it means.
I have 5 kids. 8, 6, 2, 11mo & 7mo (fosterbaby with possible trisomy 18)
I have been trying to bargain with God to give me a little more space between babies but I guess he has decided I had enough space. I need to get happy really quick and embrace the blessing God has entrusted me with and quit moping about it.
Thank you for your post today to help remind me that I am not alone and we have a very important calling from God.
Interesting to me that you talk of a quiverful. I have recently studied the scriptures on large families and what is meant of a “quiverful.” My research landed me at the Bass Pro Shop! The worker showed me a quiver, which is the leather bag that holds the arrows, that someone in the days of David would use. I asked him how many arrows can this quiver hold? He said “The average is about 12 arrows, but its really as many as you can fit.” I was amazed. I never thought that,” blessed is the man who has a quiverfull” could possibly mean 12 or more!
I am in my late 30’s and have four beautiful children. My husband and I felt like we weren’t done and maybe we could have one more. In my quiet times I felt like the Lord asked me if I would accept triplets. (That would make 7 children-if you’re doing the math) We want one more Lord not seven! Then a few weeks later my eldest son came to us and told me that he’s been praying that I would have triplets!
It has taken us, my husband and I, a couple of months of dying to self to receive what the Lord would give us. It is a big change if He really does give us triplets, but I’ve come to this conclusion: God’s ways are not my ways. His blessings are not what I consider a blessing. He is wiser than me. He knows what’s best for me. So if God considers giving us seven children as a BLESSING than I’ll receive His blessing.
I think the bottom line to everything in this life is to say yes to God.
Ellen
Thanks so much for posting! I’m linking on my blog. The comments that drive me the craziest are the ones that go along the lines of “Labor must be so easy for you - but mine nearly killed me.”
Actually, I’ve been diabetic/toxemic and/or on bedrest at some point during ALL of my pregnancies (except the three babies we lost.) Labor doesn’t suddenly become painless at baby #3.
Ann’Re,
Being open to God’s blessings and doing His will IS a state of the heart. I’m so sorry that your friends don’t see that.
Milehimama - yeah, I had med-free births because I’m as tough as nails. *takes a moment to laugh hysterically*
Anne’Re - do you remember me from Homestead? I have always found it so sad that people would judge you like that. I hope you take comfort in the fact that the same people must dispise Sarah and Elizabeth in the Bible, too. How wrong!
That is such a good point, that one child requires our full attention as much as a dozen; and that eight children does not mean eight times as much work. We often hear parents say to us “Three was all I could handle” to which my husband chirps, “After three it gets easy!”
I aggree with him, three was the hardest. Then the older ones became able to help themselves and others. My level of work plateaued. But the blessings continued to climb through the roof!
I have had only one mom tell me she assumed my pregnancies were “easy”. I was shocked. That’s not how I would describe it at all. I wonder how many others have had that same assumption.
Thanks for the great post. Your blog is one of my favorites!
Blessings,
Suzanne
We cannot have anymore children naturally but have been discussing adoption alot..but we dont know where to start, so for those who have adopted:where do you start?
Wow. Um, not sure what to say….because you don’t want to hear any excuses, right? I’ve enjoyed your blog and I generally enjoy reading about large families. Today’s post reminds me of the times I’ve felt like a far more superior mother than others because I breastfed my baby and because I am a stay-at-home wife and mom. I constantly have to fight that sin of pride.
As Amy from Amy’sHumbleMusings has said, if she posts about loving chocolate ice cream and I don’t happen to love chocolate ice cream, then her particular post does not apply to me. But you obviously meant for your post to apply to those of us who have chosen to limit our family size.
I still enjoy your blog and I genuinely enjoy reading about your Christ-centered family. Just wanted to say that my husband and I are obedient to God and we believe God speaks to us through the Bible and through His Holy Spirit who speaks to us. We are obeying Him by limiting our family to one child.
Oh, absolutely. Going from two babies to three babies was the hardest transition. Suddenly you have more children than hands, and more children than parents!
Fabulous post, Kim, as always!! We have six children so far and my husband has had two… yes, two… vasectomy reversals. We are living testimonies of the Lord’s patience! So far we have three reversal babies and are excited at the thought of the Lord blessing us with more! And, I’m turning the corner toward 42 so my childbearing years are getting shorter and shorter.
We made some terrible mistakes during most of our childbearing years but we are so thankful the Lord changed our hearts in time to bless us with a few more sweethearts! Life with these children is a delight and a gift and I wouldn’t trade it for all the tea in China!
Thank you for this sweet and thoughtful post!
Good post. The Catholic Church teaches that only for grave reasons may a couple (temporarily!) avoid having children; grave reasons are understood as those that amount to the inability to provide for children, such as life-threatening illness or total lack of income. Children are the primary end (goal) of marriage–if you don’t want children, you have no business getting married! I actually struggle with this a bit myself–I fully accept the Church’s teaching on this and recognize that my husband and I will probably have more children (we have a 17 month-old boy, and have had one miscarriage), but I shrink at the thought of the further sacrifice of time and energy required with a second child. I need to trust that God will give me the strength when it is required!
I don’t think you are foolish for having lots of kids. But, I think you are merciless and judgemental in the way you explain things.
There are blogs I love to read that explain joyfully AND GRACEFULLY why they chose quiverfull. Yours is not one of them.
Thank-you for your post. I appreciate it. I also have a quiverfull heart. I am 27 and I have 3 sons, ages 5, 3 and 2. Before we were married my husband and I often spoke of having a large family. However, after baby #2, he became uncertain. Now, after 3, he’s not certain he wants any more. My heart has been longing for another for some time. I am praying God changes his mind. I will not nag and I will not go against his authority, but I dream of having a large family (although some crazy weeks - like this one - I begin to feel more content with the little one I’ve got right now, lol!). This week he did mention the possibility of adoption (we live and work in Mexico hosting humanitarian aid trips and definitely see a need!) and our dream has always been to start a chain of orphanages (works in process already) so perhaps in the running of an orphanage or home for children is where God’s plan for me lies. I don’t know. But I do wish to be pregnant again (and I do NOT have easy pregnancies either!). Sigh.
What a beautifully written post. We have six children and are praying for more (and are actively in the adoption process again). If any of your readers would like more info about adoption–they can read more about our adoption from Ethiopia on our blog.
God Bless!
I have a dear, dear friend who has a chronic and terribly serious heart condition. Her medication keeps her alive, but she lives a very vivacious and giving life.
There has yet to be a woman with this heart condition survive pregnancy (nor the baby). Usually by the second trimester, the body cannot handle the stress. So, the doctors just consoled her: no children. She was diagnosed in her early twenties, and she and her husband knew they were to fill their home with children. So they are doing it through adoption! In fact, they have trusted God to provide the funds, and this last adoption was completely paid for by a foundation.
God has brought an agency to them that works with the birth families to understand her condition. There have been people who assumed no one would every place a child with this couple, knowing her situation. Yet, six months ago they brought home their second child!
They said, “God we are willing,” and He said, “Well, alrighty then!”
Thanks for your wonderful, kind post! It is a blessing when people are willing to stand with God, against the grain of society.
Blessings,
Kimberly, momma to 8, 1 to 11 years and one more due in April
While my husband and I are not quite “quiverfull” minded, we certainly see our children and Lord willing any future children as wonderful blessings. One of my frustrations within the church is the teaching or rather, lack of teaching, about birth control, the joy of children (and lots of them!) and what Scripture says. Our Sunday School class is working through Genesis, and recently the discussion was post-flood commandments and the similarites/differences with God’s previous commands. Guess what? No mention AT ALL was made of His first sentence “Be fruitful and multiply”. In our smaller discussion group, I said “hmm, guess God isn’t all that much in favor of birth control”, to which an unmarried 30something friend sputtered “well, people would have like 10 or 20 kids! God gave us brains!”. All I could say was “God is faithful”.
Here’s a question - Has anyone ever broached chemical birth control with church leadership? Is it ever addressed in any form? No one, and I mean NO ONE, talked with me before marriage, or if they did, I didn’t listen because they weren’t very direct with me. I now consider it my “mission” to start talking with engaged women, awkward though it may be.
Thank you for your thoughts. I so understand your heart. My husband and I have not always had a “big family” mindset. With two active toddlers 18 months apart I was overwhelmed! We made the decision to limit our family to two boys.
Then God dealt with our hearts. Through multiple (and separate) circumstances God led us to be open to more children. It took some time for more children to come. We even wondered if we’d misunderstood God’s leading. We’ve grieved through many miscarriages and faced challenges in many pregnancies and deliveries. God has greatly rewarded our obedience, though. Current score: 6 boys and 4 girls (ages 27 to 4).
When people hear about the size of our family or that we homeschool, they often assume two things: 1) I must be a very patient person and 2) I must be super organized. The fact is that those are probably my two weakest areas in my character, but God has been so faithful to grow me the most in those two areas.
If anyone had told me 20+ years ago that I would have 10 children today, I would have laughed at such a ridiculous idea. I wouldn’t change a thing, though. Each child is unique and precious and brings so much to our family. Now it’s exciting as my children begin their own families to see them following the same path. Being in a “big family” must not have been too traumatic for them!
It hurts to hear of so many Christian families who choose to limit their family size. I understand because I was once there. And I know that if they are truly seeking God’s will in this area of their lives God can change their hearts as He changed ours. I don’t look down on those who make that choice, but I do feel like they’re missing God’s best for their lives.
Sorry for the very long comment, but your post has touched my heart today. Thank you for your transparency.
A “quick” side note to Ann’Re and others… a quiverful mindset has to do with your openness to God’s will in your family size, not the results of that openness. God may choose to give some families many and some few… or none. It’s all a matter of faith and trusting that God knows best… even better than we know ourselves! We’ve grieved when babies haven’t come, but I’ve had to remind myself that I said I was open to God’s will in this area with no expectations, and that goes either way. Be encouraged. God knows your heart, and He has plans for your life.
Our experience is similar to Anne’Re’s. We have 3 children, the youngest being 8; we’ve been praying for more children for 6+ years, and not even one pregnancy. For reasons only known to Him, that’s how the Lord has ordained it. We would love to have more–I’m going to be 38, and my time is running out. I know that the Lord knows that. The cry of my heart has been to be able to accept His will.
Folks that discuss being quiverfull usually qualify their statements by saying, “We’re not speaking to those who can’t have children…” but surely there’s something to say! We sometimes get left in the background because we don’t have enough children–but we still have wisdom and experiences to offer, and perhaps our purpose also is to show that God isn’t always about big numbers! He delights in working in the small things, too:).
To the person who asked about blended quiverfull families, there’s an excellent blog of one Christian mama at http://www.paulasreality.blogspot.com - she is mama to 24 kids and expecting #25. She is one of my favorite bloggers too; her blog has really opened my eyes and heart about the adoption of older (non-infant) children. She has links to other adoption blogs on her page as well.
I’m one out of 8 kids and my mom made the choice to stop after #8 for health reasons. Now she’s delighted to be blessed with a growing heap of grandbabies!
Hi Kim!
You said you hoped I’d post again, and you picked a topic close to my heart with this one!
My husband and I have 10 biological children, ranging in age from 20 down to 14 months: 6 boys and 4 girls.
While we are quiverfull minded, and have trusted the LORD with each one, I still find it difficult. Even baby number 9 was a test of my faith. Ya’ know, I still have the same old arguments with God.
“But God, do you know how old I am? How can I manage to homeschool with all these toddlers and babies? Will I ever sleep at night again?”
I just always like to reassure young couples that it is alright to ask God the hard questions. He knows our struggles, and He is faithful to provide beyond what we can ask or expect!
My hubby says we are done at this point. I would absolutely adore another baby, but will go with his leading and trust the Lord to work in his heart. It’s His job, not mine!
Thanks for this post, and to all the commenters, thank you for your spirit of kindness when posting.
Dawn
I loved your post–thanks for describing many of the ways I have often felt when people assume that I have chosen this lifestyle because it has been “easy” or I have had a dreamy life or easy children. I want to explain sometimes, but realize that it’s all in perspective. What it all boils down to for me is whether or not Jesus can be trusted with ALL of me–including my whole body and life.
Sherry
Though I would *never* say this to a stranger I met in the store, my excuse is:
“I would love a large family. But while I’ve been pregnant 9 times, God has only blessed us with 3 living children.”
Being a quiverfull family doesn’t necessarily mean yours is a large one. “Quiverfull” may mean you are blessed with only one child, or none, before God decides your quiver is full.
I am so very, very thankful to be blessed with the children God has given me, though my heart will always long for more. Please do not assume every woman with few children has chosen that for herself.
I agree with Hillary (not clinton) I had to children, my daughter was born 3 months early and had to fight to survive, she was a miracle. Against Dr.s orders I did get pregnant again, lost that baby at 4 months. Dr. said, don’t push it, I did again. Pregnant with my son who I almost lost and eneded up in bed literraly 8 months to keep him. I wanted more children, but I also felt like God told me enough. God gives us common sense and mine said do not risk it anymore. My quiver was definately full and still is. I wanted a large family but I also believe God does honor our personal choices, and I am confident when I stand before him he will not judge me at all for not having 12, or 20 children. It is a families personal choice and while I would have loved a house full I didn’t and there is no doubt that the Father is definately pleased with my family. Well except the husband who walked out after 22 years of marraige to live with another woman. I am blessed still.
Thank you for your post! I agree that we all make choices - and we are blessed that God can take all of those choices and make them work out if we have a faithful heart. I am the mommy of one precious child but I enjoy reading blogs of women who have large families - I find it inspiring. I had my son 10 years ago - he was the result of my rebellion of my beliefs and of God’s teachings. He was born out of wedlock. As a single mom, I made the concious decision not to date for several years. Despite the fact that I was not living a Christian life, my heart still very much belonged to God. My son was my #1 priority and I refused to bring one person after another into his life only to watch them leave. When he was 5 I decided to date again - and I married the 2nd person that I dated. My husband is a wonderful man, he is kind, he is a good provider and he is my best friend. However, he is not a Christian. (Again, this was a choice that I made) About a year ago, God stopped whispering to me and began yelling. And lo and behold, I started listening. Suddenly, every new friend that I made was a Christian. Everything I did led me back to Him.
I had not been to church for many years. Having grown up in church, I had seen how many single moms were treated and talked about…. and I was scared. But recently I was invited to go to church with friends of ours - I did, and ya know what? Lightening did not strike me as I walked through the doors! As a matter of fact, there was a little old white haired lady who hugged me as I walked in - “We’re glad that you’re here” she said. It was amazing.
My son is a Christian, he gave his life to the Lord when he was 6. He and I pray nightly for my husband to accept the Lord. However, it has not happened yet. (If anyone feels led to pray for my husband - I would eternally be thankful) My husband never really wanted to be a dad. He never felt the need to procreate. However, when he met me and my son, he says that he knew it was meant to be. He is an amazing dad! He and my son have an amazing relationship!
I always wanted to have more children. I never had the quiverfull mentality - but I certainly wanted more than one. However, I was told that it may not be possible for me to have more due to PCOS. But I know that if it is God’s will - it will happen.
God has been moving in my life in an incredible way and I would not put it past Him to overcome all of our obstacles and give us more children. However, I am grateful that He has taught me some very important lessons and one of those is to simply be thankful for what I do have. And I am - I am so very blessed with my son and a husband who loves me. I look forward to the day when my husband and I can share a love for God in common as well.
My point to all of this is: Yes, some of us made choices and they were not always choices that God would have had us make, but we serve a strong and powerful God, a compassionate and wise God who can take our choices and turn them into blessings. For I know, that my son is a blessing from God, even if I made the wrong choice 10 years ago. If God does not ever give me more children, I can honestly say that I am okay with that. If somehow he blesses me with 15 more children, I will thank him for every one of those blessings and trust Him to work out the details.
Thanks for your wonderful blog, I do enjoy reading it.
i think having the “quiverfull” mindset is like any other “heart” issue… you can’t always tell what’s in someone’s heart because of their actions. while actions are a very good indicator of what’s in the heart, it’s not a guarantee by any means. a mother of one may have the quiverfull heart and mindset (surrendering her will to God’s plan for her family) while a mother of 10 may be living in bitterness and anger towards God and her husband for having so many children.
i never knew that i had to label myself as being “quiverfull” minded… to me it just seems like the next “label” we put on ourselves and others for comparison and comfort (like we homeschool, or we eat only organic, or we don’t vaccinate, or we don’t drink, or we don’t watch R-rated movies, the list could go on and on).
I am a homeschooling mom of four and am open to having what the Lord wants for me, but your delivery did feel a little harsh. However, it’s your blog, and like i always say on mine, I’m not forcing you to read my opinions and I will certainly keep reading yours! because like so many other issues, what matters is that we are all seeking to live a life that is pleasing to the Lord and we can glean from one another’s experiences… and convictions.
Thank you for this post. We, too, are allowing the Lord to plan our family. As others have stated, one family’s quiver may be full at two, another’s at 12 or more!
However, the one caveat is that we must surrender control of our reproduction to the Lord and not seek to take back control by means of tubal ligations, vasectomies, condoms, pills, etc. If the Lord has truly deemed a family’s quiver full, then He will close the womb and does not require any help from us. In Christ, Talya
all I can say is they are all missing out if they don’t have the quiverfull mindset, just my humble opinion
I sit here in near disbelief after reading your post. I assume that you mean well, but your words are incredibly harsh!!!
My husband and I have lost three children and have two wonderful little boys. We believe firmly that how many children we have is our decision and ultimately between us and God, and we won’t be swayed by what others believe we should be doing.
You cannot make blanket statements of what YOU believe to be God’s teaching on children! You do not know the intimate details of what may have led a couple to decide to have or not have a large family. In the end, it is not your opinion that matters, but what God leads each family to do. I don’t think your post leaves any room for God’s leading in a person’s life! He alone decides how many or how few children a family is blessed with.
Your comments on following a doctors orders are very unkind. Do you have personal experience in having to make that decision? If you don’t, you have no business judging others who have been down that very difficult road!
I apologize for being so blunt. I have no desire to offend someone, but this post is incredibly upsetting to me because of what we’ve been through and what I know so many of my friends have been through.
Do I want more children? Absolutely!!! But I will not apologize for spacing out my pregnancies to give my body time to heal and regain strength, or for deciding that four is all the children we truly desire to have. Do I understand that God may bless us with more than that? Absolutely! Am I open to that? Absolutely! But all of this is very PERSONAL and definitely not being decided by what those who consider themslves “quiverful”-minded believe to be right! God and His Word are my standard of living and not the opinions of others.
I have enjoyed your blog for some time now although I have never posted a comment, but your recent post on being a quiverful family touched my heart.
I admire all families, large and small. The choice of having one or twelve children is a choice we all make, and a nobel and courageous choice at that. I think there are really no excuses however. Whether we decide for one or for twelve, if we are following the spirit within us, the decision will be based on that. And I do believe that the Spirit will and can move us to having just one. The verse you quote is from the Old Testament and has its worth, but I would like to point you towards Romans 14. In whichever choice we make, if we are guided by the Spirit in the decision (and I think we all would say we are) then we have no reason to pass judgement on those who choose otherwise. Sometimes our own self pride throws guilt to others who therefor feel the need to justify their decisions. Shame on us if we are taking the place of a judge asking for justifications, shame on us for taking the place of God!!! In all, I think we really need to realise that the Spirit moves us in many ways, and you can not tell me what the Spirit is telling me just as I can not tell you what the Spirit is telling you. I
I hope you will re-consider your point of view on how “we all make a choice”. Yes we all do make a choice, but the Spirit can move us to make the choice to have 1.
By the way, I have two beautiful children here on earth, and two beautiful children on the Lord´s side of Heaven. My husband and I have prayed and felt the Spirit moving us to obey our Dr. and not have more, but we are looking at aboption in the near future.
well said mrs. walker my thought exactly as I too was a bit offended but it is KIms blog and I will continue to read it even if I don’t always agree
We are one of those couples that have been strongly warned not to have more babies, as there would be a good chance I and the baby would die. When we trusted the Lord with our next pregnancy, we were told by the high risk OB that we should abort the baby to save my life. Of course, we would never under any circumstances do that. Then, the Lord spared me and this baby from a spleenic artery anuerism in my 33rd wk. God is sovereign and surely in complete control of everything. But, my husband and I have wrestled with whether or not we should “risk” my life and another life. Each member of our families wrestle with it too. It is a choice, but definitely not easy. We definitely need to love each other in this area!
Ya’ll did see this footnote part, right?
>***If your doctor advised you not to have more children, I understand that yours was a hard decision - but it was a decision nonetheless. You had a choice and you made it. Not everyone obeys their doctor’s advice; not every doctor offers the same advice, and not everyone who goes against the advice of a doctor winds up regretting it. I’m not saying that you should have decided differently. Only that you did, indeed, have and make a choice.<
I thought that summed it up rather nicely.
Personally, I’m a bit scared of my own common sense. Logic would tell me not to get on a boat with a crazy man and a bunch of stinky animals. Commons sense doesn’t tell me that if I hide by a creek the birds will feed me, or that picking up a snake by the tail is okay; and if there was a decree put out about praying I’d certainly do it inside where no one could see me rather than risk being arrested and tossed in a lion’s den for it. Common sense tells me most certainly not to try walking on water or start passing out two loaves of bread to 2,000+ hungry people . . . .
I don’t know if we labeled ourselves or someone else gave us the name of “Quiverfull”. I’m not sure it is really descriptive of the position, but what one word is?
I think all we are doing here is recognizing our humanity - our utter inability to forsee the future, to provide, or even make the best choices for ourselves.
Oooooh! You done stepped on toes girl!
I loved this post.
Just last night I received the “don’t you know what causes that” comment, and thought to myself, “I must look like a complete idiot to people if they keep asking if I know what causes this.”
Why? Why do they have to say anything? Do I comment on how many or few children they have? Do I poke fun at those who don’t have any and ask them if they know what “causes” it?
My children are well behaved and people do enjoy them, so why does it matter to them how many I have? And do they really want me to answer that question???
Thanks for saying it. So many get so angry when they hear this point of view.
And thanks for being an encouragement to those of us at the beginning of our journey.
God Bless!
†
Natalie
Mommy to 4, 4 and under with #5 on the way!
Some of us are not angry at different point of views, we just believe that God has different plans for each family. If some of us have smaller families I don’t think God will bar the way to heaven for us. I do believe there is freedom for each husband and wife to pray and have God show them the best course for their family.
You demanding that each family be “open womb” is just as legalistic as those that demand all homeschool, wear long skirts or any other things that people through the years have pressed upon others. Don’t get me wrong I homeschooled as a child, I homeschool my kids and I love being around large families (and small families). I just don’t think I get to stick my nose in other’s business. Let’s focus on loving the sick and unsaved around us, instead of demanding that all procreate till menopause.
Hi Kim,
I appreciate your point of view on this, but please understand there are so many women who long for more children and are prevented. To accept the Lord’s will in this regard involves dying to self over and over, and sometimes we are more successful at it than other times. I think I would prefer the negative comments you get, which are mostly from unbelievers, to the prying questions I’ve gotten from believers who feel entitled to know very intimate details of my life in order to determine if I’m walking contrary to Scripture or just not blessed with many children.
I caught plenty of flak when we had three children when our oldest was only 2 and a half. I was outside the norm.
After that to make a very long and painful story short, we decided we were done. I do not regret it. I had a broken marriage that had to be fixed, and I was able to raise those three children in an intact household -the marriage is well now (a marriage, by the way, that many would have counseled me to leave.)
I like seeing big families, have no problem with others who have them, but I also have no problem with our decision. I’m sorry that so many quiverfull families seem to judge those of us who are not. It smacks a bit of insecurity on YOUR part. I am truly happy for your families, but I am truly happy with my own.
I am in full agreement on the quiverfull philosophy… in fact, I just wrote a post on my own blog in favor of it. I do disagree, however, that ALL choices to limit family size would be against God’s principles.
For example… if I came up with uterine cancer WHILE pregnant, there would be no question about my refusing chemo for the sake of the baby, even at risk to my own life.
However! If I came up with uterine cancer in between pregnancies, there would be no question at all whether I would have a total hysterectomy or not. Of course I would do whatever necessary to save my life so I can be around to mother my children God has already given me.
I have another friend who gets such low blood pressure when pregnant that she faints even when doing simple things like brushing her teeth. This gets worse each pregnancy. At least once this pregnancy she has fainted and hit her head while her children were sleeping and her husband was working. That puts her AND her family in grave danger. I do not see the decision to limit family size as contrary to scripture in that case. (BTW- she is having her 8th).
I guess those decisions don’t seem to negate my belief that children are a gift of God, and He is in control of my womb… including the ability to be here or not. I would still see me as walking in the quiverfull beliefs in a case like that.
The point is to trust God to open or close the womb… to know what is best for our families, and to lead us in the way we should go, right? I welcome comments on my own post on the subject if people want.
Kaity,
You asked about adoption and families. I have not heard of “quiverfull” before following a link today, but if it’s what I think it is, then I guess I’m “quiverfull” despite having only two children, one of whom was adopted. You can read a post I made about it last month here:
http://ginkgo100.blogspot.com/2008/01/family-planning.html
Adoption, however, is a very personal and often difficult choice. Unlike biological children, all adoptions start with a tragedy, a child losing his first mother. If you are interested in building your family through adoption, I recommend reading The Primal Wound by Nancy Newton Verrier.
Natalie, thank you for not being one of those people who make rude, thoughtless comments about the fact that my son is an only child. Plenty of people do. I have been told he will be self-centered, unable to share, unable to get along with others and that he will hate his parents for allowing his “lonely only” status. He is none of those things. He’s the most joyful, most God-confident, well-adjusted child I know. Yes, we get asked questions like, “Are you trying to have another?” as in “Are you as a married couple engaging in intercourse with or without birth control?” People are rude to us just as they are to parents of large families. Some people just don’t have that “tact” gene.
Again, happy for all of those with “quiverfull” families but especially happy for my little family and how God has blessed us and honored our faith. What a wonderful creator who has made us all unique!
This is my blog pick of the week!! I’ll link to it tomorrow.
Amen, to Kim’s post, and I lovedSandy’s comment!
I don’t understand what is so alluring about birth control. Why am I not supposed to take drugs in high school, but the minute I’m married, I’m supposed to start taking drugs for the next 30 years that alter my natural body functions?
Why does the bible describe children as blessings from God, but I’m supposed to tell God, “Absolutely no more than 1 or 2 blessings, and make sure they’re cute and healthy? And Lord, just so you know I am serious, I’m going to take drugs to prevent any further blessings!”
This makes no sense from people who claim Jesus is their Lord and Savior.
Hello Kim and all -
I enjoy your blog, and enjoy reading about all the big families.
I struggled with this issue a few years ago, but no longer. When I had my first child, I developed rheumatoid arthritis. I had another child within 14 months and was diagnosed when she was 6 months old. Those first years were the hardest I’ve ever had to endure. I remember not being able to pin their diapers because the pain was so excruciating. Off and on medication, through some really hard times and some not so bad, and fast forward a few years, I now have 5 wonderful blessings. My hands are permanently deformed now, but, thanks to medication, I live a relatively normal life. I would love to have been one of those large families, but am content with what God has provided.
The medication I take is, or was at some point, used as part of an abortifacient. It’s a mild form of chemotherapy, and it has kept me from ending up in a wheelchair because of the debilitation of RA. Though I’ve tried many meds, this has been the only thing to stop the disease - the only thing preventing me from living a life of constant pain. Pain so bad that I could not dress myself, that it hurt horribly to wipe myself, much less bathe myself, pain so bad that I dreaded going to bed knowing that I will be a cripple in the morning, or pain so bad that I couldn’t even turn myself over at night.
I believe that for me, risking pregnancy is akin to sticking my hand in a pit of vipers. Of course God can perform a miracle, but do I tempt Him? Why would it be more Christ-honoring for me to go down that path than for me to go on the way I am, caring for the children He entrusted to me, thankful for them, thankful every day that I can get out of bed without pain, dress myself, and actually perform the duties of a wife and mother? Why is one choice more noble than another? If we felt God leading us in that direction, that would be one thing, but as we don’t, our choice seems to be judged here, albeit in a loving manner.
I have read (in a pro-quiverfull book) that if a woman is truly too sick to have children, that she and her husband must stop having relations. I simply do not buy this. While I do believe that it is much better to have a quiverfull, and am opposed to the general 2-child mindset of our current culture, I do not agree that procreation is THE priority here. Making blanket judgements like these seems to me legalistic and unwise. I believe God’s will in these gray areas is found with much prayer, much study in His Word, and God’s own leading of hearts.
I thought I might clarify - the fact that the medication is an abortifacient doesn’t mean I am justifying the use of abortifacients for the purpose of abortion. The contrary is true.
I don’t have time to read all the comments, but to your post, Kim, WOO HOO!!! We think along the same lines.
It is a decision when a woman decides to follow doctors orders, but when we have to choose to remove our finger that will kill us because it has gangrene, it does not mean we are rejecting God’s blessing of a finger. We love our finger, we miss it everyday, and struggle with desire to have it. This may seem over the top, but I know women who have had to make the choice of life or a uterus. They choce life and struggle with it, but i do not see it as any different as removing a finger with gangrene in it. They accepted God’s blessings, they are not intentionally killing their children and they are accepting a different path God chose for them.
Did you know in some countries the doctors choose for you? I am not talking about just China, but Russia, where if you have two c-sections, you will wake up with your tubes tied.
My FIL would rather a woman die than stop having children, no exceptions. I see this as holding something up that is not in God’s word.
I will never call myself “quiverfull”, and not because I think using BC is right.
I think only in certain circumstances and most kinds that are available have other issues with them, so only certain kinds can a Christian even think about, like NFP.
I’m obviously not the only other mother on here that was offended by your insinuation that mothers with less number of kids than yours are out of God’s will or making excuses. Please correct me if I’m wrong (and I’m not), but ‘being fruitful and multiplying’ doesn’t state a specific number! Multiplying…gee, ONE child and I have MULTIPLIED already! I have four beautiful children and consider my ‘quiver full’ and quite blessed. And NOWHERE in the Bible does it state that I am not, for choosing to stop there. Yes, it states that one is blessed to have a quiver full…but was there a number? No. If a husband and wife considers their ‘quiver full’ at one, two, three, four…then so be it. God never said they were cursed, unblessed,etc. Your blog was mean and spiteful of those who have less than HUGE families. I myself love seeing large families, but I also know my own physical and emotional limits as a mother. Yes, large families are blessed, but so are small ones.
wow 62 posts were added here and nothing from Kim, where are you dear?
Sometimes when we present a defense of something, we’re not shooting arrows out to the opposite side - we’re simply forming and laying out a defense…an explanation.
*Many* people with large families get feedback like Kim expressed in her post. From reading the comments, I am convinced that those that are offended by the post would never actually be the ones to say, “Better you than me!” or “I’m just not patient enough!”. You probably read Kim’s blog because you enjoy reading about her family, her adventures, and can relate to how much she loves being a wife and mom.
But there is one thing to keep in mind: while we cry out for sanctification in this 21st century life, we must, as much as ever, turn to the Word of God for our counsel. We must be careful to to apply a Biblical worldview to the daily walking out of our lives, and have nothing to do with a worldview that is rooted in our own culture (being that American culture no longer embraces the absolute truths of God).
All this to say that when we hold up a hand and declare, “Don’t tell ME I haven’t heard from God right!” remember - we’re not perfect…we’re not perfectly sanctified (yet!), and we all make mistakes. Is it possible that the hard way - the uncomfortable, unconventional, the difficult to explain way - could actually be the correct Path to be on? Have I always “heard right ” from the Lord, or have I ever mis-heard or misunderstood? Where do we go when that happens? The safest place, the ROCK of our foundation, is His Word.
May the Lord help us to hear Him only. To go to Him for our wisdom and life choices *only*. And to trust that His way is best…no matter what curve-balls the world throws our way.
Hopped over here from “Milehimamma” (did I spell that right?) I haven’t visited in a while. I hope your sweet family is enjoying good health!
Me…I would have loved to have more kids. It didn’t work out that way, and it wasn’t for lack of trying. I’m happy with my four wonderful kids and look forward to grandchildren. You are so right to say an increase in the number of children doesn’t necessarily mean an increase in work–each child is an individual and one will need more attention than others at any given time. It’s amazing what we moms and dads can do when we need to do it, LOL!
(I do have to say this, though: there are people on this earth who have no business being near children, let alone having them.)
When I was pregnant with my third, I happily told someone the news. Her response? “Was this planned?” I was so taken aback I just muttered, ‘yes.’ What I should have said was, “why is that your business?” Or, “we plan to have as many kids as God wants to give us.” Why is it that, when you have a boy and a girl for your first two, everyone assumes you’re ‘done’?????
Karen, that was a beautiful comment you left.
The one thing I think we need to be reminded here is that GOD opens and closes the womb. He can open it any time He pleases and close it whenever He pleases. If we truly believed that, why should we ever use BC? Does God make mistakes?
I keep reading on here that ‘God opens and closes the womb’. That’s true, but that does not mean that people too can’t control how/when they have kids. There is such thing as the rhythm method..without the use of condoms or bc. But I’m not going to judge someone that does! God never prohibited it. If so, I should be beating myself up for every mentstrual cycle I have and the ‘lost’ child I never conceived. Comments like ‘marriage is for children/procreation’ reduce the sexual intimacy between a husband and wife to nothing more than mating for offspring. God didn’t just intend the marriage for procreation alone!! Nor sex for procreation alone! It is a beautiful physical and emotional union between husband and wife. God would not have included Song of Solomon in your Bible if that were not so. So to proliferate the message that marriage and sex is only for kids/procreation is just ludicrous. Not every sexual encounter between spouses have to be to create a child! Yes, children are a wonderful blessing but it’s not the aim of every couple to get pregnant each time they are together! Nor is it the aim of every woman to birth a child at every opportunity until menopause. Please…show me the verse that says that…would LOVE to see it.
I think you are right they most reasons are excuses. Naturally God deals with us all in different ways, and we all have different callings in life. But, for a woman who is home there is no excuse to stop what God has given her.
…Rom 14:3 Do not let him who eats despise him who does not eat; and do not let him who does not eat judge him who eats, for God has received him…
[...] own, and we strive to avoid jumping to conclusions about where people might stand on the issue. Ann’Re mentioned this in her comment, as did KMC, Hilary and [...]
[...] own, and we strive to avoid jumping to conclusions about where people might stand on the issue. Ann’Re mentioned this in her comment, as did KMC, Hilary and [...]
mj,
I just added a new post with some clarifications on many of the points raised here in the comments.
Ladies,
Thank you for your input on this important topic. I know we won’t all see eye to eye, but I think we can agree that each of us is striving to understand God’s will as expressed in His Word.
Quiverfull adoption!
Kim, this was fantastic. I whole-heartedly agree. Hubby and I have been able to grow (and are continuing to grow) our family through adoption. We know our quiver is not as full as the Lord intends so we continue to seek Him for our next blessing. I hope those ladies who were questioning quiverfull and adoption will visit me at my blog.
http://preciousinhissite.blogspot.com/
Thank you for your honesty and your willingness to sharpen the iron around you!
I’ve linked to this insightful post!
http://gombojav.blogspot.com/2008/02/blog-o-week_24.html
Blessings,
Daja
Although I adore families who ascribe to the “quiver full” mindset and I would not mind being one of those families, a lot of you have overlooked one crucial thing. We have a responsibility to be governed not only by our King, but our husbands as well.
My husband is from a family with two children and after our three decided to permanently inhibit his ability to father children. While we are now in the process of fostering to adopt and hope to expand our family from 5 to 6 members he has no desire whatsoever to reverse his decision to stop fathering children naturally and I MUST respect that decision.
Isn’t it possible that my husband’s quiver is full based on his thoughts and prayerful consideration on the matter even though I would not mind more children? As the saying goes, “it takes two to tango”.
My husband is the head of this family and I respectfully stand by his decision on this matter.
Angel,
You are absolutely right, and I should have mentioned this since it is one of my underlying presuppositions.
My husband and I didn’t arrive at this conviction at exactly the same time, and regardless of which of us felt the pull first the key point was when *he* did, because his role in this house and in our relationship is to lead.
Hello,
Thanks so much for your honesty and convictions regarding your family. I am a new wife and homemaker. My husband and I look forward to having as many children as God will allow. I have had similar discussions about this, some agree and others do not. However, my husband and I will stand firm on what we believe God has placed on our hearts about having children.
Thanks so much for your teaching and encouragment!
Heather,
Hopefully you have read Kim’s follow-up post to this. It may answer your misunderstandings.
“I’m obviously not the only other mother on here that was offended by your insinuation that mothers with less number of kids than yours are out of God’s will or making excuses.”
Nowhere in this post did it say “you must have X-number of children to be in God’s will”. In fact, that idea is so opposite to a quiverfull mindset, because being “quiverfull” does not have to do with the number of children you have, but with your attitude. It is the attitude of trusting that God knows what’s best for your family in every area, including when He chooses to give children. It in no way means that people who have smaller families are somehow not as good as those with larger. It is about being content with the number of children GOD CHOOSES to give, whether it be few or many. God has blessed you with 4 children, and indeed you are truly blessed!
“No. If a husband and wife considers their ‘quiver full’ at one, two, three, four…then so be it.”
Here is where “quiverfull” families would disagree with you- it is not up to a husband and wife to decide when their quiver is full- that is totally God’s authority. God is giver of life, the opener and closer of wombs, not us. Why should we presume that we (in our human wisdom) know when we should have children and how many we should have? We don’t even know what will happen in the next 5 minutes- God knows what will happen every day, forever. Why do we trust God with our salvation and so many other things, but so often take this area into our own control? Is God not able to be trusted in this area?
God can be trusted, and I am sure we all agree that He can be. That is exactly why my husband and I have left our family size in His capable hands. Similar to Kim, we do not generally like to call ourselves “quiverfull” because we are simply following God and His Word, we don’t feel the need to put a label on that. As Christians we strive to place our trust in God in everything (of course it can be hard at times!) so it doesn’t really make sense to say “God we believe that you are the giver of life and we trust that you know what is best for us, but we’re going to use birth control until we think it is the right time to have a child.”
Huh? As if we know better than God?
It just doesn’t make sense.
We do not know better than God and we never will. Only He can be trusted with such delicate decisions. God doesn’t really need our interference. He knows what He is doing.
Amy
Heather said
“…your insinuation that mothers with less number of kids than yours are out of God’s will or making excuses.”
I say -
Heather neither Kim or I bother with head counts. It’s not the number of children that matter but your attitude toward having more. God may bless you with one or with 10; that is His choice and none of my business.
Most moderns assume that no conception control = lots of children, but there are plenty of comments here that prove otherwise.
Heather further opines:
“Please correct me if I’m wrong (and I’m not), but ‘being fruitful and multiplying’ doesn’t state a specific number!”
I retort -
If you block up the womb are you still “being fruitful”? If a tree stops bearing fruit is it considered fruitful?
If God made the human body to bear children for a certain number of years and he tells us to bear children - open ended not a bookmark in sight other than old age - where do we find the “freedom” to inflict barrenness on ourselves?
Heather again holds forth with:
“I have four beautiful children and consider my ‘quiver full’ and quite blessed. And NOWHERE in the Bible does it state that I am not, for choosing to stop there.
I reply
Not chapter and verse however - remember you are talking about self inflicted barreness. Have you ever looked at what the Scripture says about the opening and closing of the womb? Here’s a sample:
Psalm 107:31Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men! 32Let them exalt him also in the congregation of the people, and praise him in the assembly of the elders. 33He turneth rivers into a wilderness, and the watersprings into dry ground; 34A fruitful land into barrenness, for the wickedness of them that dwell therein. 35He turneth the wilderness into a standing water, and dry ground into watersprings. 36And there he maketh the hungry to dwell, that they may prepare a city for habitation; 37And sow the fields, and plant vineyards, which may yield fruits of increase. 38He blesseth them also, so that they are multiplied greatly; and suffereth not their cattle to decrease.
Here is just one example in Scripture that shows us God’s attitude toward bareness, and toward a fruitful womb. When you close the womb by artificial means you are in effect saying bareness is a good thing. God says they that to be “multiplied greatly” is a good thing. Who is correct?
Who determines the extent of a wombs fruitfulness? It is clear from the text that God does. If we try to bring upon ourselves a condition that God himself considers an accursed state….what does that say of us?
Heather states with firm conviction:
“Yes, it states that one is blessed to have a quiver full…but was there a number? No. If a husband and wife considers their ‘quiver full’ at one, two, three, four…then so be it.
I retort
…have you ever shot a bow? Ever seen a quiver?
I’ve never considered my real bow and arrow quivers full at 1 or 4.
Heather again:
“God never said they were cursed, unblessed,etc.”
Again I reply Psalm 107 (see above)
Heather gives us this in her final shot
“Your blog was mean and spiteful of those who have less than HUGE families.”
I reply:
No, it was a Scriptural exhortation on the topic of closing the womb artificially. You have misread the post. You did not see any of the qualifiers (or you choose to ignore them) and you have been unnecessarily rude and harsh. Frankly you owe Kim an apology for making the kind of accusations that you did. If you see something in the Scripture that supports the idea of artificially imposed bareness I’d be happy to hear it, but I’m not willing to hear any more character attacks.
God Bless
Pc3
Hey Kim,
I realize I’m a few days behind here, but I have to agree with you. I was’t always on board with lots of children, but 3 always sounded good. I recall telling my husband when the third child was a little over one that I might want another child, as if I had the place to tell God what I wanted. Well, once my heart got on board baby #4 was conceived a year later. It took that long for my mind & heart to mesh, the Lord has much patience for me. Well, our sweet baby arrived 8 wks early & like the first three was by c-section. I don’t recommend this route for having babies, but it’s what the Lord has chosen for me & I’m ok with that. We were blessed that #4 only spent 4 wks in the hospital & were so excited to have him. The doctor who did the procedure along with my doctor both told me not to have anymore children. Now, I didn’t like hearing this & thought maybe the Lord is telling me not to have more because of all the c-sections (the scar tissue made it very hard for the doctor to cut & sew me back up). Well, then while talking to some ladies at church the Lord hit me with this: if God wants me to stop having children then He will close my womb. I have no right to force or prevent life. Our new baby is currently 3 months (looks like a newborn but beautiful) & because we are choosing to let God decide no other form of birth control has entered our home. Of course, my doctor thinks we are crazy for not using anything but it’s not her decision. Since we currently live in Germany 4 children is a huge amount. The comments we get are horrible & the fact that our children are young, newborn to 7, it makes it even odder. We are truly blessed & if God sees fit to give us more then He will protect me & baby, He’s done it before. Thanks again for your post & honesty. I hope your new baby is growing well.
I might have mostly agreed with you many years ago. However, life and more in-depth study of what the Bible has to say about this subject has caused us to change our position. I have a post you can read about it here:
http://dollymama.blogspot.com/2005/08/quiver-full-anyone.html
The short version is that while the Bible is absolutely not clear on it never being ok to prevent pregnancy, it is clear about:
bringing up our children in the nurture and admonition of God (Ephesians 6:4), and my husband’s charge to take good care of me (aka loving me like Christ loves the church- Ephesians 5:25)
I think where QF fails is in what the Bible calls “counting the cost.” (Luke 14:28) I have lots more at the above link.
My baby is nearly 5 years old now, and my husband and I continue to feel at peace with our beliefs about this issue. I would certainly encourage all Christian couples to examine their hearts and attitudes about childbearing, and not to just blindly set a number of kids to have a spacing between them. But, I think there is room, and even encouragement, in scripture, for wise and humble planning and a balanced perspective.
I agree with the others who said this was a harsh post. It came across implying that no matter what, even if a woman has health concerns or might die if she gets pregnant, too bad, it’s HER CHOICE (implying that choosing to cease trying to get pregnant is wrong, wrong, wrong!)
I think the reason people assume you have easy pregnancies or that others of the quiverfull mindset have it easy is because A)Many of them do and have said so (I’ve heard, “I just love being pregnant”; “I have such easy and fast births,” etc.) and B) Lack of grace on this issue. People assume that you have had no experience with hardship and struggle over these decisions when you make harsh and legalistic-sounding statements about what people should and shouldn’t do in this area as if there are no circumstances that might need a different answer. You say you have had it rough, and I believe you, in a sense, because pregnancy and birth are always a challenge to the body, but I wonder what you, and others in the Quiverfull movement would do if you had an ectopic pregnancy and knew that to do nothing meant to leave your lovely children motherless and your husband a widower. I have never heard of a case where God intervened and saved a mother in that circumstance. Would you decide it was His will that you die in that instance? I don’t believe it’s okay to limit kids out of selfishness or desire for personal comfort, but I see that there are many instances where Christians have to make very difficult decisions in this area. Of course they need to make prayerful decisions and seek the Lord, but I don’t believe that the Bible says that every couple MUST have as many children as they possibly can. I like how Amy Scott, in her wise post today, pointed out that Christians in China are forced to have abortions. One Chinese Christian woman told me personally that this goes on all the time and that they are always checking up on you and arresting pregnant women to see her permission papers. For the believers in China, do they “blindly trust” and not take any action against getting pregnant and watch their children get butchered in horrific murders or do they prevent children? Perhaps God’s graciousness to them is the knowledge of the body and ability to prevent pregnancy through certain non-body-altering methods. Perhaps God works out His will by giving us direction in the decision making in these hard situations.
The fact that you came across so “all or nothing” left little room for tough circumstances like these and this is why people assume you’ve had it easy!
“Judge not that ye be not judged. Condemn not that ye not be condemned.” Luke 6:37
This conversation is rather disheartening. We as Christians are throwing stones at each other instead of encouraging each other. I have to wonder about those that believe it is wrong for anyone to use any form of birth control. If the Lord has lead you personally to not use birth control then it would be wrong to tell Him no and use it. However, I don’t believe He leads everyone to do everything the same. I also have to honestly wonder about those who claim to know the mind of the Lord. It’s one thing to say what you believe, what your personal interpretation of scripture is, and why. It’s quite another to insist that you are right and anyone who doesn’t agree with you is wrong. I suspect we might get to heaven and find out we were all wrong.
“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it…”
Genesis 1:27-28
For one thing I would submit that humans have in fact filled the earth and subdued it.
Secondly, I would like to point out that the Lord said to be fruitful and increase in number BEFORE the fall of man. BEFORE sin entered the world. BEFORE pregnancy and childbirth became what it is today. Now I’m not trying to say that since we brought sin into the world He didn’t want us to have children. God is all knowing therefore, He knew when He created us that we would sin. He gave us a very powerful sex drive thus ensuring procreation.
If you choose to use not birth control and instead choose to “let the Lord have control over your womb” I wonder if you ever go to the doctor? Do you get your children vaccinations? If you are sick do you take medicine? Do you take Tylenol when you have a headache? Ever? I ask these questions because illness came into the world because of sin just like increased pain in childbearing and all the problems there are with pregnancy and childbirth. If you take medicine to prevent illness then are you interfering in God’s will? He is able to heal anything. He is able to prevent illness from happening to us. I think we all can agree that God is all powerful and can do as He pleases. The point I’m trying to make is that He gave us the knowledge to develop medicine and vaccines and the wisdom to use them. When we give our hearts and lives to Him we give Him authority in our lives. We are His to do with as He will. Therefore He already has control over our wombs. I submit that God is more than able to give a baby to any of His children that He chooses regardless of any birth control being used. We all know people this has happened to. People who got pregnant on the pill or other form of contraception. I know of couples who have conceived after tubal ligation and those who have conceived after vasectomy. God gave us minds and knowledge to help us. We have learned to cope to some degree with our fallen world. He gave us the ability to prevent and treat illness. I also believe He gave us the ability to prevent or delay conception. It just seems incongruent to not use contraception because of wishing to allow the Lord to have His way but then using medications and doctors instead of allowing Him to have His will in your body.
One last observation. Some here are being very insistent in pointing out what they believe to be sin in the lives of others. To these people I would like to respond again with scripture. “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay not attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye, when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye. You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” Luke 6:41-42
“If anyone of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” John 8:7
Why don’t we worry about our own selves and our own families. The Bible does tell us to be able to give an answer about what we believe to those who ask. It
doesn’t however, tell us to shove it down throat and judge and condemn them.
[...] Fruitful and Multiply. Since the topic of childbearing seems to be a hot button around [...]
I appreciated your article and the example you give as a “joyful mother of children” in your blog. It was good to read the story of your journey into and through motherhood. Let me humbly admit though, that I can’t find how your story and experience makes scripture say something it doesn’t. The Bible is silent on this issue. Yes, children are a blessing but that blessing doesn’t change whether or not you have a few or several. They are a blessing individually.
I (and my husband) grew up with the “Quiverfull” mindset and during our teens, we began to rethink that concept in looking at scripture and also seeing the ways and means this “doctrine” was promoted. We both found it is not a command in scripture, except after creation and after the flood; both situations necessitated the demand for an increase in population because there hardly was a population. We can all see that is not the issue now (there is more than just one family on the earth). Plus, as Christ’s followers and believers in the Bible, we should note that it’s never taught on in the New Testament either.
Now, it is simply a man-made belief that can make you look godly and holy because you are “letting God plan your family.” (I say “you” in a general term; not YOU in particular.
) The most children a woman in the Bible had was 6-7, except for Job’s wife. Yes, the majority of them had large families but the men had multiple wives.
We know the joy and the struggle of raising children close together; we had 3 in 3 years. We are also a strong believer against hormonal birth control