On the discipline of children
This is a touchy topic for many and one that we generally steer clear of, but I’ve had several emails on the subject recently so I’ll share just a bit.
We believe the Bible is crystal clear about using the rod, i.e. corporal discipline. (Proverbs 13:24, 22:15, 23:13-14, 29:15) We have found that children who are disciplined in a loving and consistent manner are happy children. Children who have learned to bend their will to the visible but limited authority of parents find it much easier to bend their wills to an invisible but all-powerful God.
A woman once marveled that we had so many children and actually enjoyed their company. “I only have one, and most of the time I want to hit him on the head!” My husband replied, “Ma’am, we hit ours on the other end so we won’t want to hit them on the head.”
I won’t go into the details of discipline because that is an area that will look different from one household to the next, from one parent to the next, from one child to the next, and from one season of life to the next. It’s certainly not an area that we have perfectly figured out, nor have our children. We have children that respond simply and beautifully, and children that aid us greatly in our own sanctification. Sometimes it’s the same child on different days.
A few key points:
consistency: It’s easy to “get things whipped into shape,” then coast for a while. We tend to relax the standards because everything is going pretty well, and before we know it we have to re-train the entire household.
first-time obedience: The sweet, gentle mother wants to issue a reminder or two for each infraction before proceeding to “harsher” measures, but children will quickly learn to expect just that. They will learn that it’s not necessary to obey the first time because there is always another chance or two before the consequences begin. If we give until a count of 3 then we train our children to wait for the count before they take us seriously. Doug Wilson once commented that parents often spend more time teaching fractions than teaching prompt obedience: 1…2…2-1/2…2-3/4…
attitude: Obedience with an angry or begrudging attitude is not true obedience. This is hard for parents because we must walk a fine line between judging our child’s heart and creating little Pharisees who obey on the outside but are full of rebellion within. God demands heart-service, and to teach our children to obey only on the outside is quite simply a waste of time.
A few good resources:
- Shepherding a Child’s Heart by Ted Tripp (For many years, I have given this as a baby shower gift to every new parent I know!)
- Parenting From the Heart: Practical Parenting from a Mom of 14 Children by Marilyn Boyer
- Proverbs for Parenting by Barbara Decker
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Filed under: parenting
Some good thoughts, thanks. Please pardon abbreviated grammar; typing with one hand and baby in other. One thought from the other side on the proverbs for parenting book: use it for you, not your children, or at least not as discipline. My mother used to whip it out to show us how out of line we were, and I HATED that book! Then one day, when she was really in a temper, she pulled it out to tell us off with, and it happened to open to the section on anger. She didn’t really use it much after that…
So, remember Proverbs are best taught before being needed, not in the heat of the moment.
Loved this, agree totally! Wonderful parents you are!!
And all God’s people said, AMEN!
BTW, I’ve always wondered why people are incredulous about large families and how people could “stand” having a lot of children. It seems obvious that if you have the discipline thing down, it’s a joy to have more children…but if you don’t, it’s no fun at all and you won’t have more children!
True true. I’m having to re-train my almost 2 yo right now because of her age, I bought into giving her chances–thinking I would make sure she understood before taking disciplinary action.
Oh she understood all right, only too well. It’s hard to change the habit of saying her name twice or more ect and expecting her to react right away.
It would have been a WHOLE LOT easier to do it right the first time
I really hate when ppl recommend waiting to train until the child is 3 or more!! I don’t get that at all.
Thanks for the recs.
I’d like to humbly share this link with your readers:
http://lutherama.blogspot.com/2007/09/rod-is-means-of-grace.html
Thank you.
I have read Shepherding A Child’s heart and Proverbs For Parenting. Both are great. I highly recomend them.
Thank you so much for sharing!!!! I so appreciate this. We are “quiverfull” and excited to welcome all the children God will give us, but man this discipline thing can make or break a happy household. For some reason, it’s much harder to figure out for certain children than others!!! The actual submission isn’t as difficult, but it’s getting them to change their heart, or their attitude, that is the hardest part.
Thanks, Kim. So true about how easy it is to ‘whip them into shape’ and then slack off for a while. My husband and I have had several conversations where we have to realize that we’ve been giving the children too many chances and we have to buckle down and remember to be totally consistent.
Loved Perry’s comment about spanking them on the other end!
Kristi - changing the attitude is the hardest for us as well. 6yo ds is extremely emotional and struggles with anger and we are still working out how best to instruct him regarding his attitude.
Great post Kim, and so very true!
Although we are not of your faith, we practice a lot of the same life style choices. Discipline is needed in both mom and kids for sure! I enjoy having so many children, smiling, eager, and willing helpers. Most of the time they cause more harm than good at the youngest ages, but the point is they are trying. My children are all disciplined, according to their age, and will always be. I don’t believe in corporal punishment of any kind before the age of two, but certainly even before then boundaries must be set. At the age of 2, in line with the tradition of my Amish ancestors, I start to train mine not only in discipline, but everything. They start school, chores, and all other things at this age. By the ages of 5 and 6 my children can read, add, subtract, tell time, do laundry, clean their room, sew, make coffee and tea, cook simple meals, and put away house hold items. They know money and measurements by seven and start multiplication by 8. At the same time they learn to cook, sew, crochet, animal husbandry, and work in the garden. At 9 they learn child care and basic budgeting skills along with division, decimals, and fractions. Reading is never a problem, nor is writing. Starting young, at 2, is the only way to have them ready for the real world as soon as possible.
Another very good book is “Don’t Make Me Count to Three: a Mom’s Look at Heart-Oriented Discipline” by Ginger Plowman
Thanks for the post. My third bun is in the oven at the moment, and I’m hoping for as many more as I can get! Some people think I’m too hard on my kids, most likely. I don’t buy them things to bribe them to be good in the grocery store. I don’t let them whisper or eat candy in church (this is a hard one, because the other *parents* are often passing it out!). I punish with the first infraction, not after I’ve told them 5 times already. I actually had a cousin whom I rarely see comment that my children appear to be afraid to have fun, just because the older one was sitting quietly and eating birthday cake! This is not remotely true. My kids are fun-loving and rambunctious, as children ought to be. Apparently there had been some family gossip about how strict I am before I showed up at that gathering.
The most telling thing, though, is that the very parents who think I’m too hard on my kids are the same ones who are always complaining about how badly their children behave. As if discipline and behavior were completely unrelated! I’ve even had ladies ask for advice on how to get their children not to have temper tantrums where the children end up hurting themselves. I don’t hang out with an unusually dysfunctional group of people (although these particular two are not Christians), so I assume this is pretty common, if not often talked about. I told them all that it sounds to me like the child is tired of “being bad” (which is what both of these well-meaning mothers tell them when they’ve had all they can stand of the disobedience) and are punishing themselves. Most self-harm is motivated by shame. To date, neither of them have taken my advice: Punish quickly, and make sure the child knows *why* he’s being punished, so you don’t have to punish often. This may result in a few tears in the short term, but letting it go too long results in even more. They’re still complaining, and their kids are still misbehaving constantly. Mine are nowhere near angels, but it’s mostly peaceful around here. I don’t mind the snide talk among my extended family very much, as long as I have happy, well-adjusted children to show for it. It does sting a little, though.
Great points! People have already begun to ask us if this (the 3rd) is our last, we smile and say no and you are right people are always saying “oh my goodness I couldn’t stand that many children.” If you watch their one or two they have, they are little indians who run their household. I couldn’t stand a handful of children like that either.
Kelli,
Good recommendation! Perry and I stumbled across this book at a homeschool conference last year. I posted just a bit about it here.
Another excellent book is:
Raising Godly Tomatoes
There is a website with most of the text from the book here:
http://www.raisinggodlytomatoes.com/
Hubby and I are expecting our first child in Nov…honestly, I’m glad you brought this up today because more than anything, how to discipline our children (and more than that, mold their attitudes) really throws us for a loop. It’s been on my mind a great deal these past few weeks, for some reason. Those books will likely soon find their way to our nightstands - I’ve only ever heard great things about Shepherding a Child’s Heart, in particular.
I know most people who comment on here are probably already parents and so this will be old hat, but if you have a minute (anyone, not just KimC!), would you mind laying out some specifics regarding how to change a child’s heart or attitude if it is not currently reflecting a Godly response? We are on board with spanking, so I’m not speaking to that really, but more to longterm ways to encourage (demand? earn?) respect for authority and gracious obedience…
So sorry if this usurps anything - I don’t mean to turn this into an advice comment section but really would be very grateful to hear some of what has worked and what has not… (I was well-disciplined as a child, but Hubby was not…somehow, he did turn out all right despite that fact.)
What? You’re steering clear of touchy topics?—-Just kidding! I’m right on board with you on this issue. Thanks for recommending the Ted Tripp book—I will definitely read it. I taught a “Prayerful Parenting” class a couple years ago and one woman said, “Please tell me there’s an instruction book for children.” I responded, “Believe it or not, there is. It’s the Bible.”
Blessings to you, Kim. I read you every day but I’m leaving tomorrow for a week long vacation. You are in my prayers as you prepare to welcome your new baby. When I read you again, maybe that baby will be here!
Hi Kim
Thank you for posting this! I was completely disheartened to read that Canada is making it illegal to spank your children~ http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/06/19/f-spanking.html
It is nice to see that there are still a few people out there who trust in God’s ways and plan for families!
I am neither against or in favor of spanking, I think each parent has its own way to discipline that is best suited for the child. In my case, I try to don’t get to the point of spanking, but when everything else fails…..
And there are always those who take it to an extreme, that they spank for the silliest reasons and where is not used to correct but punish for being a child.
[...] On the discipline of children Posted on June 19th, 2008 by kimc [...]
This may be a touchy subject for some, but it needs some lip service. Don’t be afraid to talk about it! Surely MOST of us welcome your wisdom and experience. If you have anything to add by all means- the crowd awaits. One can never stop growing, and learning, and hearing good advice, and improving their own techniques, and being inspired by new ideas. Oh I beg of you to speak freely, Kim- or Perry for that matter. My husband and I and our other children just went to pick up our oldest child from a Christian (actually Lutheran) summer camp that lasted 6 days. I was stunned when the minute we got into the door she went right back to her old ways of being cruel, inconsiderate, and unaffectionate to the youngest who is 5 yrs (a boy.) She is 11 and has a terrible attitude towards her youngest brother and I don’t know how to effectively discipline her on this issue or how to create a loving relationship between the two of them. He really wants her acceptance. How do you make a sibling love and care for another? Thank you for the suggested reading material. Kim, I hope you can respond before you go and have a baby! I am so happy for you and your family.
We agree with the bible and use the rod too. Our children are happy and our home is loving and peaceful because we are consistent. (I will admit to sometimes going to re-read a few Proverbs after using the rod as a reminder of why we use it.)