Dad’s Follow up on McDonald’s and the boycott
WARNING: The following contains positions of a Conservative, Reformed, Theonomic, man. Strong Opinions Follow. Be Warned.
I want to make a few points about sodomy, McDonalds, boycotts, and God's Law and the Reformed faith here. I have closed the comments on the other thread because I felt it had gone beyond productive to continue to allow the informal poll of our readers' views on perversion to continue.
Kim posted our intention to boycott Mcdonalds in order to share our convictions with our readers, and while I don't mind hear from and interacting with folks (even those who disagree with me 
) I felt the comments had run their course.
That being said, there are a few points I want to make clear here on my family blog.
1.) There is an eternal and perfect standard of morality given to us by a transcendent God who takes no delight in sin. It is the moral law that governs all of life and applies to every area - if we don't know or understand how it applies to every area of life then it speaks of our shortcomings, not of any defect in the Scripture.
(Side note: before I get pelted with repeating chroruses of "We're under grace not under law," go and read this: James 1:25. Go ahead, I'll wait. Did you catch the "perfect Law of Liberty part?)
No matter how we might feel about it, God's moral law applies to every area of life. It is God who has decreed right from wrong and no amount of modern hand wringing will change His written objective opinion of homosexuality. Several commentors posted verses here and here that make the it plain what God thinks of homosexuality.
Oh and by the way - God did not make people "gay" no matter how long they have been practicing homosexuality.
2.) Homosexuality is physically and mentally destructive and morally wrong. It is not "loving" to allow those we profess to love to continue in (self)destructive habits without comment. Conversely, it is not "hateful" to caution them from behavior which will destroy their body and soul.
3.) Christian love is more than just accepting people for who they are and where they are. Yes, we are all sinners in need of grace and forgiveness, but the love of God is shown by calling men to repentance as John the Baptist did and Jesus did. Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments. He also told us through Paul that when we see someone overtaken in a fault, go to them in a spirit of meekness and correct them. He did not say to accept them for who they are; He did say preach and if they won't hear you then shake the dust off your feet. The Gospel eventually divides the elect from the unrepentant, yet we are not relieved from our duty to preach "repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand."
4.) Points one and two above are not my own misguided opinion or personal interpretation of the Scriptures. The Bible teaches us that there is much wisdom in many counselors and that we Christians are on dangerous and foolish ground when we ignore them. All that to say, there is 2000 years of church history to support my moral statement against sodomy - a unified voice that teaches men lying with men and women lying with women is reprehensible in the sight of God. If you disagree with that statement then you disagree with the big man upstairs. Incidentally, His Son Jesus doesn't make a habit of disagreeing with him.
5.) It is not realistic for me to fight every battle or to boycott every company whose actions I disagree with as I have a limited amount of resources to go around. Neither is it hypocritical for me not to fight or boycott every company which supports something I disagree with. The Apostle Paul said it best in 1 Corinthians 5:9-10:
I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.
I can't go out of this world and neither would I want to, but I can strategically make use of the resources that God has given to me in order to exert as much influence for the Kingdom as humanly possible. God will do with my feeble efforts as He will.
6.)It is not a sin for me to keep buying from McDonald's. I am not responsible for what they do with the money once I buy something from them or any other company; conversely, there is no sin in my choosing to boycott them. I have chosen to make an economic statement to a company that is in business to make money by selling hamburgers. I have choices. I am choosing to buy hamburgers at another restaurant for the time being because McDonald's has done things I deeply disagree with, namely helping to normalize one of the most destructive behaviors known to man and a sin so wicked in God's eyes that he sends it AS judgment (Romans 1). I have therefore tried as best I could to explain things to those of similar conviction in the hope they might join me.
Which brings me to
7.) I don't think you are in sin if you don't' join the boycott. I thought commentor MintheGap put it remarkably well when he said in part
"Biblically, I have a choice that I can make. I can continue to patronize them (Romans 14- if Paul could eat meat offered to idols whose money went to false prophets, I can eat a Big Mac that has 1 cent go to support homosexual causes) or I can choose to boycott and hope they’ll change their position.
I can choose other places to eat– that’s not a problem. But I shouldn’t judge those that do not boycott."
Amen and Amen. Neither Kim nor I ever tried to bind anyone's conscience with anything other than theWword of God. This is a prudential decision about how to commit MY money. I will not stand before the Lord and give an account of what you do with YOUR money. So if you choose to keep buying Mickey D's, grace and peace to you brother.
Lastly my comments above are aimed at those who claim the name of Christ as Lord and Savior. I hope it helps them to understand the context of the original post a bit better. If you don't know the Lord then you may not have a framework to interpret my comments on the sufficiency of Scripture and its application to every area of life. Likewise if you are not a Christian then we have very different standards for measuring the important things in life like morality, and we should probably have a conversation on ultimate standards of morality and the Lordship of King Jesus before we start talking about specifics.
Thanks for reading this. I do appreciate the input even if I don't agree with it - it helps keep me sharp.
Related posts:
- More thoughts on the Mcdonald’s boycott
- McDonald’s boycott
- Boycotts work!
- Proverbs
- Passionate Housewives author interview: Stacy McDonald
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Filed under: Christian living, Dad's corner
Well said! The Bible is the TRUE word of God and is not to be bent or swayed to fit our own purposes. Again I say “well said”!
Very well written! Thank you! Amen, Amen, Amen…..
Thanks for the clear and graceful response to posters. I enjoyed reading it and agree wholeheartedly.
I. for one, would like to say thank you for standing up for your beliefs. Whether I am for or against is irrelevant. I’m not going to get into my theological beliefs in a blog comment but I did want to stop and let you know that I am glad you are taking a stand for what you believe in. If only more people would.
That was very well said! Thank you!
Amen………..
Laralee
http://PlymouthRockRanch.com
Recording the Faithfulness and Provision of God for Future Generations
Thank you for your balanced view of boycotts. We didn’t have to make a choice on this one, because we all got sick of greasy fast food, and had not been to McDonalds in over a month, anyway. But we have gotten a lot of flack lately for choosing NOT to boycott American Girl. We told them (the Pleasant Company) how we felt about the direction they were heading, and chose to give them a chance to change directions before we decide. Thank you for articulating for me what I was not able to explain to well meaning relatives. We love God, and we are wholly committed to Him, but we will not always choose to take our stand in the exact same way as others.
ARghh. I can’t believe the comments from your last post! It is quite revealing as to how deceived Christians are! We are further gone than I like to think – but there it is, in the comment section!
I am very *into* the Love of Jesus. Yes – He IS love. He is also NOT about the toleration of sin.
God IS Holy. He can not tolerate sin!
So many Christians want to say, “Well, we all sin. This sin is no different than other sins.” They use this as an argument as to why we should not speak against homosexuality, or should not separate out this sin.
The reason this particular sin needs to be pointed out is that it specifically has disastrous repercussions for a nation. It destroys individuals. It destroys families. It rewrites the moral code for a nation. It destroys children.
Yes, God hates gluttony, but gluttony does not destroy the soul of a nation in the same way as homosexuality.
A little child can eat and get fat from a school lunch program, and yes, that is bad…but it is not morally equivalent to a little child being taught that homosexuality is acceptable from a school health program.
If we do not hold the line on this issue, the ramifications are HUGE for the next generation. I think most people can not see this.
One last issue: We say that unless Christians speak out about adultery or infidelity or pre-marital intimacy, we are being hypocrites regarding homosexuality. Well…I think that most Christians who are against special protection for homosexuals are also against adultery, infidelity, and pre-marital intimacy. I think that argument is a straw-man.
Be strong, Christians. Don’t neglect to stand up for God’s Word. Yes, do so in love, be loving to those you know who are caught in homosexuality – but in your love don’t forget to stand strong.
Amen!
Excellent post! I just read through the comments of the former post before reading your “Follow up”. Thank you for your explanation. It was very well put.
amen, amen and did I say AMEN!!!!!
Amen!
Um, on point 7, is that “not” supposed to be there?
Well written and bravely said!
Perry C replies:
Kyria, Thank you for pointing that out! I’ve fixed it now.
May I boycott McD only because their food is horrible? That seems a good enough reason!
Thank you so much for this follow-up post. I have never been a huge fan of boycotting because, as you indicated, if you really dig deep enough, you’d have to boycott nearly every retailer in the world since very few are practicing business in a way that is consistent with God’s word. I am so glad you clarified this as it is apparent that your family’s blog reaches so many people.
As hard as it to hear the truth, it is still the truth. Love is a wonderful thing, and we should be loving but we also need to share the truth. Only through conviction of the Holy Spirit are people brought to repentance and true repentance is a turning away from sin.
Thank you, I appreciate the clarification of the boycott, and I think you addressed some of the issues I raised (supporting other corporations) well. I still have some issues with the boycott, but as you said, the debate has pretty much run its course. I do value that you allowed others to post their thoughts uncensored and that the debate was conducted respectfully.
Amen!…well said indeed..it is a touchy subject but the word of God is truth and we cannot make exceptions to His word…and we are commanded to love ALL people but hate the sin.
AMEN!
that was awesome! Good job! And BTW, Kim, I really liked the first post, too! It was very well written, as always, and it was truth! Bless you! And bless you “hubby” for coming to her defense! That speaks volumes in itself. I don’t comment often, but I read your blog all the time and love it!
Kudo’s to you for standing up for what the Bible teaches.
Reminder: God destroyed a whole city because of this very sin your speaking out against.
Reminder: God also destroyed the whole world but 8 people because of thier unbelief in him.
Its not a matter of ‘hate’ vs ‘love’ – its a matter of ”right’ vs ‘wrong’
What God says is wrong, is wrong. Period.
Perry, I agree with everything you’ve written. I do think there is a valid point about other companies out there who deserve to be held accountable as well. I think (see? opinion) there is also something to be said for standing WITH other Christians who have committed to a certain boycott or stance even if it isn’t a number one on your list.
But… I got a note from AFA with “pictures” of the parade. And if I weren’t convinced before, that sure would have thrown me over the top.
PS. Hopefully you don’t take this as being pushy, but I can’t wait until you have a new pic up top with ALL your li’l ones. :]
Well written, and very soundly scripturely based. Jesus bless you and your family today.
Well put! And, Amen!
Whoo hoo!! Well said! I am clapping and cheering for you!
Amen.
You said it extremely well.
Don’t let your heart be troubled over attacks from those who have been swayed by a false gospel and by strange doctrines.
May grace and peace fill your hearts tonight.
I guess my question in all this is: Will you write McD’s a letter explaining your decision to not buy their products and your objection to what they are doing or just stop buying their product without telling them? ie, if your fries aren’t hot, do you just not eat them, or do you tell them WHY you didn’t eat them and give them a chance to make good? My opinion is that it does no good to just stop buying without telling them why, to give them an opportunity to change their stand.
Thank you.
And all of God’s people said, “Amen”! Well said and btw I haven’t gone to McD’s since I first heard of their position on homosexuality. Thanks for sharing.
Can I just add “Well said…!”
Fantastic post. Very well written. Great wisdom in stepping on the other post comments. I think that Kim’s post was overshadowed by the comments that ran way off track.
Thank you for being committed to the truth of Gods’ word. Even with my husband studying at theological college in Sydney, it is highly disturbing to see how far we as christians have shifted from the plumb line of God’s word. Many christians and churches have followed the world and allowed the world to tell us how Gods truth fits into society, not the other way round. May you and your wife continue to be a voice of many that herald the straight path of the bible, not modern, popular, majority or politically correct reason.
God bless you richly as you seek to humbly serve Him and your family.
Thank you for your ‘follow up’ as I also felt it was needed. Even though I do not know you, other than meeting Kim and your daughter (one of them) in Hillsboro, with her Grandparents, I feel I know you, and at least now, really know how you put the Lord first in your lives. Thanks again for a blessed response. It was needed. And we have also printed off petitions and we now pass by our “used to be quick place to eat!” Sue K.
We are one of the few people that boycott business, and don’t back down. We haven’t shopped at WalMart for almost two years, and we honestly believe that God has blessed us for our stance.
We have been boycotting McDonalds for a few months now as well, and while our daughter still asks for the arches she also knows we aren’t fans of it, and just says that we don’t go there anymore.
Just FYI have you looked into Fords? We bought one last year not knowing what they do with their money but it falls inline with McDonalds and Walmart and to be honest they give more money than those two companies do……it amazes me that in a country that supposibly is made of Christians that not more of them are taking stands and allowing corporate conglomerates to give money to things that God would deem inappropriate.
I think it’s really cool and admirable that you are taking a stand and leading your family in the way of righteousness. Good for you!
Amen!
Thanks, Perry and Kim, for standing strong on God’s holy Word!
I, too, was shocked at the comments from Christians on the first post. It shows how much people are willing to be spoon fed and let the world tickle their ears and not study the Scriptures to find out what God really says. May we all be like the Bereans who “examined the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.” Acts 17:11
Well said! I had not read the comments left under the ‘boycott’ post- I’m almost afraid to go read them!
Keep on!
You know? I’ve just not had the guts to say it. Thanks.
This my friend( I know we are not really friends, however you would be just my kind of friend if we lived closer) is exactly why I hold you in such high esteem as the leader of your home. Because you are a man of God and who is extremely biblically based. I haven’t commented until now because Iwhile I believe the same way you do i just chose not to be in the middle this time. I love Kim’s blog posts and highly support all she rights about. I just think at times I need to be silent.
writes about, (not rights about geesh)
Well said friend. I look forward to enjoying a Whataburger with extra jalapenos with you sometime soon, Lord willing. Who needs McDonalds. Thank you for keeping sharp.
Under the same mercy,
Thanks, Perry. I so appreciate both your and Kim’s Biblical comments on many issues, while remaining loving and not coming across as arrogant or hateful towards those who either do not know our Lord, or are not obeying His clear commands in certain areas. Thank you.
I am curious how you feel about 1 Cor 5:9-13?
God never said we are not to associate with the immoral of the world, only those who are “Christian” and immoral.
Perry, thank you for standing up for what is the TRUTH! May the Lord continue to bless you, Kim, and the children as you follow the True Shepherd! May your flock be increased twofold, for you are not a
leader who bows down to the “god of seculiarism”.
This being said, we should also remember that our bodies are the temple of God. Why defile the temple with their artery clogging “foodstuff”? The only thing real about their “meals” is the containers they come in. Blessings are not lost if we give up the arches!
Sometimes I think it might be helpful when discussing this issue (and others like it where “love” and “tolerance” are often invoked) if we carefully gave examples of ways in which we could love our gay friends or family members besides just “speaking the truth in love.” Let me be clear, there is no substitute for God’s truth, but it is not all I am willing to give to any homosexual individual (or, for that matter, any heterosexual living in sexual sin). Tonight (actually before I had read either of your posts on McDonalds) I sat at dinner with two family members I know to be gay. They are not my mentors, my heroes, my advisors, people I would entrust with my children… but they are in need me to be willing to love them as Christ does. I am willing to share the truth with them. But I love them in other ways also. What if we didn’t only talk about tough love? What if we cried with those who are gay when they lose someone they love? What if we shared a meal with them? What if we helped them when they were sick? What if we listened to them? I agree with and appreciate your post; and I realize that many believers are already demonstrating this kind of love. It just doesn’t get mentioned very often, and I want people to know that we are strong enough in our faith to reach out to a needy (please do not jump to condemn me for calling anyone else needy; we ALL have needs) world without embracing its value system for ourselves.
I appreciate your family, your blog, and what you stand for. While I am unable to join a boycott of McDonalds (since I cannot ever remember eating there – because of the body being the temple of God reasoning), I am most interested in reading your reasons for the boycott.
Several reasons stuck out in my mind as I read:
“1.) There is an eternal and perfect standard of morality given to us by a transcendent God who takes no delight in sin. It is the moral law that governs all of life and applies to every area – if we don’t know or understand how it applies to every area of life then it speaks of our shortcomings, not of any defect in the Scripture.
(Side note: before I get pelted with repeating choruses of “We’re under grace not under law,” go and read this: James 1:25. Go ahead, I’ll wait. Did you catch the “perfect Law of Liberty part?)
No matter how we might feel about it, God’s moral law applies to every area of life.”
I absolutely agree with this point. I believe that the Ten Commandments, written with the very finger of God, are the centerpiece of all of God’s laws… as you said, God’s laws apply to every area of life, and it is eternal and perfect…. I have been unable to find any Scripture evidence that any of God’s Ten Commandments have ever changed.
You also said, “Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments.” I couldn’t agree more.
What I don’t understand is why this logic seems to only apply to 9 of the 10 Commandments… Why is it that the call to obedience and the methods of scriptural interpretation suddenly change with the one commandment God said to “Remember”?
[...] If you’ve read here for any length of time, you will know that I have many different opinions on boycotts. Sometimes I have promoted them. Sometimes I’ve explored it Biblically in context that there is always something sinful being promoted. Sometimes I’ve used it as a springboard to talk about different topics. And recently I waded into comments talking about the Boycott on McDonalds. [...]
Great Questions on why are only 9 of 10 commandments apply today.
Short answer is they all apply today.
In text below though
What does work mean to you?
What does rest mean to you?
Who is to weigh and Judge what a Sabbath Day means today for each person?
Also consider a farmer, a software engineer who sits at a computer all week, and a full time Elder/Pastor who preaches one sermon on Saturday night and 3 on Sunday every week.
Exodus 20:8-11 [ESV]
(8) “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
(9) Six days you shall labor, and do all your work,
(10) but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates.
(11) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Romans 14:5-12 [ESV]
(5) One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
(6) The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.
(7) For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself.
(8) If we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord’s.
(9) For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
(10) Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God;
(11) for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.”
(12) So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.
Not to needlessly stir up old controversy – after all anyone who knows me knows how much I avoid controversy
, but I realized today that I never answered many if any of the comments on this thread.
Please excuse my tardiness – a week of wedding anniversary, Sea World, major inventory counts in the warehouse and a Jonathan Park premiere had me snowed under.
So I’ll start at the beginning and when I’m finished I’ll stop.
Thanks for your patience.
Pc3
Mrs. C said “… there is also something to be said for standing WITH other Christians who have committed to a certain boycott or stance even if it isn’t a number one on your list.
But… I got a note from AFA with “pictures” of the parade. And if I weren’t convinced before, that sure would have thrown me over the top….”
—
Mrs C I can’t agree more with both points. The fact that a large organization of Christians who have had success with boycotts in the past was behind this made it seem like a good strategic move for us.
Secondly the pictures of the perversion being flaunted in broad daylight in front of children (shame on the parents who allowed it) was a button pusher for me as well.
Cheers
Pc3
jules, on August 1st, 2008 at 3:44 pm Said:
I guess my question in all this is: Will you write McD’s a letter explaining your decision to not buy their products and your objection to what they are doing or just stop buying their product without telling them?”
Jules see Kim’s previous post about the boycott, specifically the part at the end of the post where she said “Call or visit local McD’s to politely tell the manager why you no longer patronize the chain.” and “Make photocopies of your filled-in petitions to deliver to McDonald’s locations near you.”
We are not a family who is shy about respectfully and peacefully explaining our position to others. We met at the age of 12 on the picket lines outside of abortion clinics in the Dallas area.
Folks I really should have made this #8 in my post.
8.) It’s such and easy small thing to go somewhere else. It’s a relatively small sacrifice to choose another fast food restaurant in this day and age. (besides i prefer whataburger)
hm, on August 1st, 2008 at 11:56 pm Said (in part):
“Just FYI have you looked into Fords? We bought one last year not knowing what they do with their money but it falls inline with McDonald’s and Walmart and to be honest they give more money than those two companies do……”
hm,I don’t know if you’ve heard about this but earlier this year (i think) the AFA lifted their boycott of Ford (http://www.afa.net/emails/transform.asp?x=ford_031008&s=browser&y=2008&m=03)
Personally I think the Ford boycott is a great example of why the AFA is an effective organizational tool for Christians to be aware of – although like your family we don’t buy new vehicles.
Erik Engstrom, on August 2nd, 2008 at 2:40 pm Said:
“Well said friend. I look forward to enjoying a Whataburger with extra jalapenos with you sometime soon, Lord willing. Who needs McDonalds. Thank you for keeping sharp.
Under the same mercy,”
Erik,
If I head that way maybe I can figure out how to bring one with me…..:D
Keep the faith brother.
Pc3
Anne, on August 3rd, 2008 at 10:43 am Said:
“I am curious how you feel about 1 Cor 5:9-13?
God never said we are not to associate with the immoral of the world, only those who are “Christian” and immoral.”
Well Anne for one thing it’s why I am not a member of the ECUSA and no longer a member of the ELCA (that and being presbyterian).
Seriously though – I didn’t join a boycott of homosexual people – unless they are Christan and then their churches ought to boycott them using this old fashioned procedure called “Church Discipline” if they don’t repent.
I joined a boycott of a CORPORATION a business who uses their money to support non-profits that aggressively promote the gay and lesbian lifestyle. In free markets dollars vote. Now how to deal with unsaved homosexuals that’s a totally different question.
Preach repentance unto life and show them an example of “Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father” by how we treat them.
The second great commandment still applies to gays and lesbians.
Sarah, on August 4th, 2008 at 11:27 pm Said (in part):
” What if we didn’t only talk about tough love? What if we cried with those who are gay when they lose someone they love? What if we shared a meal with them? What if we helped them when they were sick? What if we listened to them? I agree with and appreciate your post; and I realize that many believers are already demonstrating this kind of love. It just doesn’t get mentioned very often, and I want people to know that we are strong enough in our faith to reach out to a needy (please do not jump to condemn me for calling anyone else needy; we ALL have needs) world without embracing its value system for ourselves.”
Sarah I couldn’t agree more. One of the ways the church made inroads into heathen cultures in the past is to build schools and hospitals. These were ways in which meeting the needs of the local population gave them opportunity to spread the Gospel by example and deed.
Great points! Thanks
Deanna thanks for the question!
The short answer is I do believe the Sabbath still applies in some sense. This is not intended to be a complete apologetic for my Lord’s Day belief’s and practices, yet I hold that based on what we find in Genesis a one in seven day of rest is a creation ordinance (like monogamy) that must be honored by God’s people.
How we honor it is another question. I suspect my answer will not satisfy you because (i think) you are approaching it from a Saturday-Sabbath perspective – feel free to corect me if I’m wrong.
My answer is best summed up by other folks:
Firstly I am influenced by The Westminster Divines in their WCF
Chapter XXI
gratefully taken from http://www.reformed.org
My views are then tempered by John Calvin and RJ Rushdoony. Calvin I quote below again from reformed.org and I recommend Rushdoony’s Institutes of Biblical Law which can be purchased from http://www.chalcedon.org
Cheers
PerryC